Worthwhile Mods

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Every mod that is out and in the public domain can and will be open to all sorts of feedback, from modders and otherwise. Positive and otherwise. "Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" is never productive.

 

Anytime you look at mods you'd like to use, compatibility is of paramount concern. If, for example you'd like to install the new NPC mod "Johan the homophobic half-elf supremacist" along with a "romances ignore race and gender requirements" tweak, you are going to have at least a conceptual compatibility problem*. A real world example of this would be trying to install the Chosen of Cyric encounter from Rogue Rebalancing along with BP. These mods simply will not work together (or, at least, they wouldn't the last time I checked). Another example would be trying to install two TC's at the same time. It'll never work.

By the way, I heartily recommend both the Chosen of Cyric Encounter and BP Weidu.....just not at the same time. While I'm not fond of "big" mods and don't use them, I am fond of BP's script additions and it's (in my opinion, much more sane) version of ascension.

Not in this case, since the additions made by NEJ won't be appended by the fixpack (NEJ concentrates on adding new content and new items in new areas that the fixpack will not touch) and changes made by IA will take precedence since it is installed last.

* Admittedly, in a case like this the mod will probably still work . It'll just be.....weird.

[ May 09, 2007, 23:06: Message edited by: Drew ]

 

If, for example, another mod has already corrupted one of the game's original files (such as a spell file), installing IA (no matter after or before that mod) will not solve the problem.

Yes, when you install IA last, then IA's combat scripts will take precedence, but problems are not confined to combat scripts. When I give a certain installation recommendation or instruction for my mod, I have many other factors in mind. Don't follow them and you will most probably have problems/bugs in your game and your experience of the mod's content will not be as it was intended (even if you do not notice any problems during the game, it doesn't mean that they don't exist).

 

While there is no such thing as a mod or fixpack that has no errors, this isn't what the fixpack is doing. It's true that the fixpack has caused some spells to function differently (for example, the fixpack stops multiple Vampiric Touch spells from stacking as per its description, several spells no longer exclude the wrong schools as per their descriptions, and the ranges of a few spells have been changed to match their descriptions), but that hardly qualifies as introducing a bug into the game. Perhaps your AI was counting on Skull Trap having a nerfed range, but I would argue that fixing the incorrect range modifier for Skull Trap isn't going to break anything.....and it hardly qualifies as a bug.

 

Oh, and Xan is not only available as 'a romance option for females': he has a long, rich friendship path for all players, three quests, and an alternative class component(Fighter/Mage, Sorcerer, Mage, Wild Mage).

 

BG2 Fixpack (older than non-betha v2) contained a critical bug which would indeed corrupt one of the game's original spells very badly. It's strange that you were not (and are not still) aware of the existence of that bug in G3 Fixpack (non-betha v1 and older). Recommending a mod to players without knowing its version history and its bugs is really news to me.

EDIT: The reason I am talking a previous version of G3 Fixpack is to show that the general argument that "Players didn't notice or report a problem; therefor, no problem exists" is invalid. We have a counter example for this argument: "There were players who played the bugged version of G3 Fixpack with IA and never noticed and reported a bug; though we are now completely sure that their game was bugged."

Similarly, the fact that even now, no players notice any problem while playing G3 fixpack with IA doesn't entail that no problem exists in their games. If you want to play IA with safety, follow the installation instructions in the mod's readme file, please.

[ May 10, 2007, 17:51: Message edited by: Sikret ]

 

Thanks for the answer Baronius, your meaning wasn't so clear from the part I quoted- it looked as if you were discouraging experimentation. Now I know.

Kulyok's Xan is pretty cool, even when not romancing.

 

Is Xan a mod for just BG2/ToB or is it like a Tutu thing or Trilogy thing or something like that?

 

Xan mod from PPG is for BG2(SoA only or SoA+ToB, ToB content is present)/(BG2 part of BGT):
http://www.pocketplane.net/xan

For BG1 part (BG1 part of BGT)/TUTU you'll have to download BG1 NPC Project:
http://gibberlings3.net/bg1npc

 

I have played the Tutu side of Xan all the way through, from the male friendship perspective, and it was excellent.

I have only gotten through Spellhold with Xan on the BG2 side, and only through (Tutu) Baldur's Gate with Xan playing a female romance - not because of content, because of playtime (not much of it that doesn't revolve around bugfixing and testing other projects). I heartily recommend both Xan and Kivan for either install -

BUT I consider Xan a MUST install mod if you want a strong romance for a female PC. When Gavin comes out for BG2, I think that will be a tough choice for female PC players - that will mean BG2 has four solid romance choices, and only five party slots to play with.

I can't say from a player perspective either way on Kivan romance for female PC as I have not played it (I just haven't had the time yet), but the writing for the friendship side is stellar (remeber, I am biased towards all of Domi's work, so I may be a little fanboi-ish, but I don't think so; I hope I am able to report accurately). Reading the .d and .tra files, I am definitely going to have to find the time to try t from a player perspective.

I am interested to know if someone has player perspective comments on Solufain. I know lots of folks add him, but have never really tried myself - for a non-romance playthrough with a male F or F/M or Paladin (role-player), does anyone have player perspective?

[ May 10, 2007, 17:03: Message edited by: cmorgan ]

 

Did I say that I recommended playing obsolete versions of mods? I don't. Would you recommend that players use old versions of IA? I really don't see what you are trying to say here. I don't understand why a bug which existed on an earlier release of a mod is really a valid reason not to play it now. If the only mods you are willing to play are the type that never had any bugs in the first place, than there wouldn't be any mods available at all.

 

Solaufain's banters are good- I really liked some of the talks we got into. He's also a very powerful party member, though you'll have to go early to the Underdark if you want to play most of SoA with him. The downside to using him is the battles. Without mincing words- these can be tough, especially if you haven't played them before. The worst part is that they are inevitable, so you can't avoid them (the exception being the Eclipse encounter in ToB, which is avoidable). He's certainly worth taking through at least once, although you should be confident you are good at the game first.

 

As a (hopefully) interesting addition, I would like to mention the Auramaster Kit.

Cernd isn't the favourite character of many players, often because he is too weak. Auramaster mod aims to change on this, but it also allows you to choose the kit for your protagonist.

This quote is from your reply that you posted after I've suggested PM. I didn't reply, waited, but then you've made another two posts in the same topic. Why do you want to force the discussion here?

Your statement that I quoted is wrong (too). It's generally true that just because ModB is installed after ModA, it doesn't ensure that ModB's functionality won't change. It's because ModB has dependendencies. If ModA corrupts an original game spell used by ModB, it won't work in ModB regardless the installation order. (For example, ModA = earlier G3FP, ModB = IA). So the consequences of latent bugs cannot be avoided via installation order. That is, your IA battle can have the same (possibly hidden) flaws due to other mods even if you install IA as the last mod.

BG2 Fixpack "fixes" too many things and many things are untested. Despite what its developers imply, there are serious bugs in almost each new release of Fixpack. This is partly due to the development attitude and guidelines, and it's also somewhat natural -- it's relatively new, it wasn't tested as many times as, for example, BD. The newest Fixpack version, for example, causes a crash. Optional component, but most FP players install all those, so it's no wonder Shaitan also encountered it (and for some reason reported it in the IA forum). G3FP -- as every mod -- will have bugs, but it would have many less if more consciousness and discipline characterized its development. IA is a complex mod, changes many aspects of the game, and thus it's too sensitive to be used with such a dynamic, untested and problematic project such as G3FP. Now really let's stay with PM, please.

Well, as long as they are aware of the possible consequences, why not.

However, I'm also not against anti-cheat protections made by modders. Smart players will avoid these anyway, while it will prevent certain people from spreading false rumours about mods -- like the one who posted on the Bioware forums (who didn't even know what mods he had installed at all).

[ May 10, 2007, 21:40: Message edited by: Baronius ]

 

I'm already scared of the overdone fixes and you guys aren't helping. Is there any chance we can just toss you guys in a room and see who comes out alive?

another question of curiosity about Xan. Does he still get to keep his moonblade? Though I am aware that it is easily outclassed by a number of weapons in SoA and ToB.


As for Soulafein he's got some tough fights. I understand that the one where he's turned into a vampire as part of the romance can be particularly tough considering he is quite powerful all on his own and it gets turned against you while you are a man down. it's particularly enjoyed by the guys that love to ramp up the difficulty pretty much as high as it can go.

 

@Baronius: I will stay at PM if you stop bashing the fixpack in a thread about what mods to install and expecting no one to respond to it. Just as no one should be bashing IA or any blackwyrm mod unless it is to bring up a specific criticism, (in which case a response from someone involved with the mod should be considered reasonable) in a thread like this because it will always lead to a pissing contest where the modder would (rightfully) try to defend his mod or at least clarify any attacks made against it, you shouldn't be bashing the fixpack in a public forum and expect no one to defend or clarify your attacks on it......especially when you use non-core fixes that players should understand aren't likely to be as well tested as your example of a fixpack bug. If you continue to bash the fixpack publicly, then it is more than a little unreasonable to expect no one to publicly defend it.

[ May 11, 2007, 21:49: Message edited by: Drew ]

 

@Starwalker - there is really no need to be afraid of *any* of these mods - SHS has folks that put together incredibly huge installs with just about everything out there including the kitchen sink, and have lots of fun playing them. If you take it with a sense of humor and adventure, you will probably find that there is alot out there that is truly enjoyable!

RE: Solufain -
Well, if Solufain's characterization and banters are cool, then it sounds like a good bet to try him in spite of the battles. As seen by my mod recommendations, I tend to be less combat-oriented or even scripting/AI oriented (thoughI do use cirreric's mods and SCS on EasyTutu, I tend not to mess with the AI on SoA/ToB). I have survived TGCep1 (barely, with huge numbers of repeated reloads, and enjoyed it) so I can deal with the fights (not well, but if they are harder than TGCEp1 (now "In Candlelight" worst comes to worst there is always Ctr-Y ). The biggest thing I am looking for is personality.

I want Valen, but I can't see playing an evil character, so I don't think I can go there. Have to stick to reading the files.

 

i'm like CM.

I go more for added content than added difficulty. The mentions of added difficulty are what have kept me away from certain mods.


And by being scared of the over fixes I do mean in a sense the "the armour is too brown" and bunch of other little things that aren't really fixes all until the point that at some stage as they keep adding new stuff and fixing bugs I don't really recognize the game anymore. I don't mind a few flaws honestly as long as the real bugs are fixed. Over my last year or two on these forums I've also heard plenty of different wierd things happening because somebody has put all these different fixes or changes or whatever to get wierd glitches. Also because I do like to add things for the content and not difficulty changes or the like. I do like to experience as much as I can what the modder intended.

But then I've also heard many of the wierd things that have ended up unexpectedly in Silverstar's games with his monolithic lists of mods he tries out which made me just a little paranoid when I was first learning about mods.

 

Be warned that you will likely have to reload once or twice even with Soulafein's first battles- they really are nasty when you don't know what is coming up.

I wouldn't worry too much about playing with a lot of mods- so long as you read the readme for each and use some common sense, you should be alright. I've played with a similar number to Silverstar for a while and got away with it, so there's no reason you can't too.

I tried her briefly, but didn't keep her all that long. I can understand the weakness during the day, but when she moved super fast at night (annoyingly outpacing the rest of the party), I couldn't decide when the best time to go out would be.

This is the best thing anyone has said so far. If only we could- the Mod Wars would be practically over in one fell swoop. Perhaps we could partition Tal to bring it about?

 

It's you who started it all, by encouraging players not to follow the installation instructions of a (yes, blackwyrm) mod, and choose another mod instead. So I've clarified the reasons why that mod is risky (and thus the whole idea to override author instructions), then you told your counter-arguments, so now let's try to finish it at this point.

You probably know that sometimes a few Flaming Fist members might have bigger combat efficiency than Ctrl+Y, if you know what I mean