Worthless lives

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As Jon Irenicus said, "Life is Strength".

Well, I think people a few thousand years ago were too busy trying to survive to even think about there being a purpose in life other than that. Now with all of our luxuries and our newfound perfect health and extended lives we are wondering what our purpose is. Well, maybe to survive and procreate still is still our purpose, as any race's, exept now it's easier to pull off.

I don't see why people spend their lives being fearful of God, when they are really only fearing their own actions. Seems like religon has no purpose but to make people fearful of themselves and some divine power that they may never even see. I suppose the only real purpose in life is to find inner peace within the time allowed to you. I doubt you can understand much anything else, without understanding yourself as well.

Think about this: there is no God, there is no divine Creator, and there is no life in any other worlds but our own. It's just us, all alone. Our fate resting entirley on our own sholders. Kinda hard to picture, because we have to place all of our hope within ourselves, and no one else. It's quite hard to think of the purpose of yourself, and not place yourself at someone else's will, so you don't have to take responsibility for yourself. THAT my friends is the only way you can find purpose in yourself, even if God does exist.


[This message has been edited by Lord Sarevok (edited December 25, 2001).]

 

A question popped up just now... If there's a god, why are there so many people suffering. And if there ain't no god, but one questions the meaning of life - What would all the religious people answer?
They would probably answer that it's not in their hands to control their own life. Most poor people in the world are religious. And poor people, live in pain and sorrow. Ofcourse. So how can they say that their god is the one who knows the answer, if another land with other religious beliefs sais that it's up to THEIR god to decide?
So there are many different religions in the world. And the god that one man believes in is the true god? There's no way.
If you look at it that way, there can be no god to know what the meaning of life is. Life is bullshit. We live for nothing. We are born, we "live" and we die.
Life has no real meaning.
Life is pain. Life is agony. Life is sorrow.
Am I right?

 

Life is nothing but a futile escape from death.

 

Now that last statement,

"Life is nothing but a futile escape from death."

...Lord Sarevok, is something I REALLY disagree with.

Now, 'life'... hmmm. Life is what? Energy constructed into a vessel effecting the world around it, able to control a central system and manufacture seemingly everlasting, environmentally-dependant needs...? Maybe.

Perhaps 'life' is something this God-creature gave to all of 'us' so that we can be tested, although the animals don't really get anything but skinned to protect this unanimous 'us' group.

Yes, Lord Sarevok, death is the end of life, and therefore life is the road to death (tedious statement, but true). But in between there's much more than waiting for death. Let me tell you about these things in life besides death:

The foremost point in life is dependance. Who depends upon whom? You eat cookies, get a virus that eats your intestines, shit out the remains into a vast sewer system filled with rats and germs and whatnot. The viruses, rats, and germs (and the workers down at the sanitation plant) all depend upon you, although maybe indirectly. And you depend upon others, which is absolutely FUN, FUN, FUN, isn't it? Death isn't the only thing in life! You have to worry about other people's deaths! You have to think in cross-dimensional pyrotechnics to grasp all the junk from others one needs to demonstrate 'life'.

There's beauty, too. Yep. Lots of beauty. Almost too much. The thing is...the only species that finds human beauty beautiful is humans! Humans are narrow-minded. We wear leather and cotton and wool, eat steak, harrangue animals by their own guts and listen to their blood drip so that we can fulfill a little un-vegetarian craze - all the time saying, "Well, them animals in that there forest is sure nice, don'tcher think? Wish I could get a sneak peek at them before those bastards kill them all off!"
That's what human life is about, friend.

That's the problem. Life isn't about death. It's about judgement. Perception (a most accused word, I might add), and if you can defy that, well, that would be your perception.

Ambrose Bierce wrote something like this: "Optimism: a way of thinking that states that all things are beautiful, even those that are ugly." I think that perception is everything. The problems we humans have is that we can share our perceptions. We can think really hard about things and conjure up distorted emotions and an infinite array of emotional choices and spread them all around like diseases.

...and this macabre-death perception you have, Lord Sarevok, is a bit unnerving. Kill yourself. You said in the last comment that God doesn't exist. No consequences. I don't think so either. If you don't like life than do away with it, if nor the worse. I would, but I enjoy my life. I enjoy typing what I think. I like eating animals and wishing people would stop killing them.

And liking it all is exactly what'll keep you doing it. Life's a big salad bar and the dressing tastes like feces.

Remember that feces may be a good smell to some...
(Note: Recognize sarcasm and be forever saved, unholy worshipers)

 

Without knowledge life is but a shadow of death. Is knowledge futile, Sarevok? Hardly.

 

It hurts me that so less people no the real meaning in life....

Sarevok, you have a totally wrong image of God. You use the word fearfull... because you don't believe in him. I believe in God... and am not fearful... It seems to me like I'm one of the few here that have a real goal in life... when I read this all, everybody seems to be so unsure about the future... and I'm glad I'm not....

Sarevok, imagine that there is no God... How would the world be created. Just just developped, from out of nothing. When you look at nothing, you can look for eternity but nothing will remain. When you look at a stone, it will not change into something living.... Evolution happens only on things that already live.... but where did life started? Look at nature, life always starts with something that lives, dead things don't evolute in something living. And there is so many that fit exactly in Nature, a human body, millions of components that together make one whole body and mind.. nature is all totally balanced... and there is indeed much beauty... something so big like this... only a real great Artist can have made this... something beyond what our mind can understand.

I have no proof for this all. Yet I am totally sure I'm right. The only proof is strong believe and I hope God will give that also to you. Search for God and you will find him.... He will find you... And then life isn't empty anymore.

 

Ha! I never said I didn't enjoy life, but death is the only way it will end, as you all know. If there is some afterlife, the only way to get there is from death, so death could be a good thing. I was merley using the example that there is nothing out there but us as to state that it would be better to find strength within yourselves instead of another, it's not what I believe. You can have sprituality without religon you know. I have faith up to the point of specifics, people just analyze it too much, making me doubtful. I just don't see how you can cram faith into a book, it just dosen't work that way for me.

 

Headbanger, what is life? Even in its most primitive state it is reactions betwen simple proteinstructures, amino acids etc.
Science does not believe we formed out of rocks nore out of nothing.

Headbanger,how the material from the big bang, If I may suggest there was one, came to exsistance. And why space exsist at all are much stronger platforms to explain God's exsistance upon. Basicly I don't understand the wonders God can produce, and you don't understand the wonders evolution can produce. Shouldn't we call it a draw?

I agree with Sarevok that dying isn't bad in christianity, it is a reward. Since heaven is a reward. Hence death can be considered good. The trick is that you can't trick God.

But fearful of God Sarevok? Either you embrace his kingdom or you don't. One cannot have one foot in and one foot out. Those who have however, are perhaps fearful.

But there are so many religions and spritual communities to attend to so he who really wants meaning with his life, in the sense of an afterlife or what is beyond, can find it. Nomatter where he believes his faith should come from. Inner strenght or Outer strenght.

 

I doubt God would want us to only find strength within him, wouldn't he be more proud of self reliant people? I think it shows our character if we can be decent human beings without a God to keep us in line.

 

a[n ok, not so] quick thought, playing off the last post, as i'm near slumber-

If, in supposition, there is a God- is your God a selfish one, Headbanger? Does he require us to worship him because he is so great? Why does he demand we obey him, lest we be wrought with a fiery hell? If he is responsible for our creation, he did not gift us with life, he gave us a trial. If we perform, we are rewarded- if not, we are punished. What tormented creature creates such a wicked game to his delight?

If we, flawed as we are, were made in his image, what fealty do we owe him more than we owe our fellow man? Would we forsake our fathers before we would forsake our Father?

If indeed this benevolent God created us, then i owe him a debt of gratitude as large as my existence, but by every right that he gave me he will not take it away. It will remain MY existence as I see fit. I would think that to devote my time here to praising him and thanking him for the life he bestowed upon me would be a waste, and insofar, an insult.

Additionally, respect would tell me that i should praise those who do great things- but i must ask, was creating a people as insidious as we have proven to be a righteous act? Supposing, that is, that you are correct...

Amon-Ra

 

Meaning of life part2 - personal level.

Unfortunately its very banal, cliched and the subject of a thousand songs but I believe it is simply this:
Enjoy the life that God/nature (delete as necessary) has given you. Take delight in pleasures of the mind (eg beauty, music, reading) and the body (eg sports) in whatever proportion seems right for you. "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" is a theme that runs through all major religions. Enjoy what this world has to give but do so in a way that does not ruin it for others. Give love generously, for the more you give the more you have. Seek out good friends and when you find them, keep them. When you think you are ready to give UNconditional Love, have kids (that is their birthright) and teach them what you have learned. Thus the cycle of life is maintained.
Easier to say what it's not about - Money, possesions, fame, loveless sex. These are distractions on the way.

 

In my opinion Mankind made up God so that they could find a way to explain their existence.

 

Nobleman, I don't except the draw. There is a difference. I cannot understand how God created all this... But I can accept it... as something I don't understand... but can believe.... For someONE beyond what we can understand created all, wich is different from someTHING created another thing... The problem is that we, humans, wanna be the smartest, we wanna rule the world and we don't want someone above us. (Genesis 3) That's why the evolution theory was made in that time (end of 19th century), after the industriel revolution. We became smarter and smarter and so didn't want to believe in God anymore... for we thought we could help ourselves. And another difference: Where do you believe in Nobleman? Evolution? You live, you evolute.. and you die... and then? Then it is over. A bit different from eternal life.... isn't it?

I know you are interested in religion... There is a difference between Christians and all other religions in the world..... All others have to deserve paradise.... We cannot. Do you know anyone that lived a perfect life? Christianity is the only religion where being Saved is a gift... a gift that you only have to open.

 

Ack, that just dosen't make sense to me! So if you don't have faith in something you're unsure about, you're condemmed, even if you led a good life? Just as easily as you could say humans made up the evolution theory to help themselves you could say Christians made up the afterlife theory because they don't want to accept their fate. And how does faith help God? Why does he need us so much? I'd really like to believe in this but so many questions like these dance around in my head. I can't have blind faith.

 

If ye ask me, I say: "Religion sux...!"

 

So if we do not believe, in doing so puts our faith in the hands of science, it is because we want to be the smartest and rulers of the world? You are harsh with your words Headbanger, and so will I then. I may devote my life to evolution, but I still accept our mortality and that evolution makes us physically equal to insects and animals. We are born. We life. We die.

I do not defy God because I want to be greater than animals. IF I wanted so, I would become christian. Then my destiny would be different from animals. I would go to heaven. Then humanity is greater than all other creatures on earth. It is not science who seeks greatness, but religion.

I don't need a God who creates me in his image only to observe my life. A life where I must accept his kingdom blindly expecting never to get a sign. If I do not embrace his Kingdom I will end in eternal torment. If I do embrace his kingdom, I am rewarded. I do not need a god where good and evil is of no importance, only embracing a kingdom is.

I might eventually believe in god, but do I love him? no. His creations are wicked. How many people must suffer untill he sees it fit for the amazing day of redemption. I am kind, friendly and giving. If my reward is eternal suffering engulfed in fire and brimstone, then so be it. At least I don't need a reward to be kind.

PS. Amon Ra has spoken well, I look forward comments on what he puts forth too.

 

Question.
God creates every one of us. And he makes everyone of us special.
God knows everything.
God creates me, and gives me free will.
God creates headbanger, and gives me free will.
God lets me live my life, knowing that due to the circumstances and experiences i encounter, i will not choose to accept God.
God lets headbanger live his life, knowing that the circumstances and experiences he encounters, will lead him to choose to accept God.
Headbanger goes to heavan.
I burn in the lake of fire.
All created, with a plan, and led to that point by God.

So why doesn't he just get it done with and send all that he knows will be saved to heavan and all those he knows will not to hell? What, he's some perv who wants to feel loved? Or he doesnt know what will happen in our lives and whether we will accept him? Really curious about this. I always thought God knows all.

 

Nobleman, what does yor faith brings you in the end?

That we suffer is the cause of human and not of God... and still he makes it all right again.... When I have to choose between eternal life or live and die and then it's over, I know what I prefer.. and will receive.


Arkados: Imagine you could make something living of Clay. You make 10 creatures... and you are proud for they are great creatures. But... they think they don't need you and never think about you again, do what you forbid them to do... they even say that you don't exist anymore. What do you do then? You get them, and make something new... What did God do? He sacrificed his Son and makes us Okay in the end again. That is a gift. A gift for everyone. But as with alll gifts, you have to take it and open it. Many people forget that... and that is not the fault of God....


[This message has been edited by Headbanger (edited January 07, 2002).]

 

Headbanger,a gift is something you get without having to do something in return or without any ulterior motives. Having to embrace his kingdom is to do something in return, ending in eternal suffering, if you don't embrace him, is certainly an ulterior motive.

God has more likely given us a bomb which can blow up any day (we don't know when we die, right?) and if we haven't embraced by the time it detonates, we go to hell. You know, I don't appreciate people who gives "gifts" like that.

I get nothing in the end. I thought I made that clear. And as I said I don't need that "gift" to change my life and be kind. I am alraedy friendly and giving and I don't expect to be rewarded due to this.

Yes it is tempting with eternal life. But I believe we are equal to all other life on earth, to the planet itself too. I see a lot more sense and balance in asian religions than christianity.

[This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited January 07, 2002).]

 

If there is a God. Then why do you have to BELIEVE in him, instead of knowing that he exists. Believing in God doesn't really change anything. If there was a person that existed, then that person will exist wether you believe him or not. If God exists then so he does, If not oh well!