Worst possible party

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*laughs!* Hard to play, maybe, but those would be some great concept parties: the Band on the Run, and the Rugby Team from Hell...

 

tjekanefir: Hehehe, Mages and semi-mages, of course...
On the Party made of all Bards: If you make a party like this one, you're looking at an Amnian gold shortage (Pickpocket...pickpocket....), A dragon shortage, a Mage shortage (Cowled Wizard Bye-bye...) and Drow Shortage. (Ever Heard of Ust Natha the GhostTown?)
Plus, you'll be seeing MTV a bit ealier than usual too....

 

Ironbeard I cant agree more
http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002352.html

Its quite fun

 

I think six bards wouldn't be -too- hard because bards are rather versatile in the first place (they're almost multi-class as it is) and aren't as restricted in armor, weaponry, or magic items as other classes. Once you got them to ToB everyone would fall before them like flies. And even before then you could have one of them singing, two shooting arrows and spellcasting, and three doing a decent job keeping the melee out of the other guys' faces. It wouldn't be too hard spreading the good stuff around. You'd have no healing, so you'd have to do a lot of resting and walking back and forth from temples; you'd also have trouble with traps, since IIRC that's not one of the bardic thief skills. But those are annoyances more than crippling handicaps. Would be a fun game, I think.

I still think those six mages would be very difficult, the six wizard slayers well nigh impossible, because they'd be woefully underequipped. If you're going with your PC and five already existing NPCs, the only possible hard part would be keeping them all alive through the end of it, so the hardest would be taking care of all the fragile folks who die most frequently all at once.

 

Tjekanefir... My first PC in this game was a mage, and more than once I had tried my best to have him at front as leader. Yes, the six mages were hard - but not THAT hard.. (Well, some of them were multi and dual-classes, no?) Me experiences with that mage PC and a few others in previous games had me try that party... and so far, the only real problem was....low saving throws. Considering all my mages...multi or dual... all had conjuring spells... I had an army I could keep by myself. (Aerie's arial servant and the Skeleton Warriors were pretty great too!) And by the time Mordenkaninen's sword came in...And reflected image and simulacrum to cast summons too so the original memorized spells wouldn't be wasted... All my mages had to do were throw minute meteors. (Though I would occasionally have one Stoneskinned, Casted with a few immunities, and Tensor's Transformed and wack a big foes just for the fun of it)

BTW
The Cloak of the Stars is one of the heaven sent items in the game... If you're a plain mage without the Staff of the Magi...
And though I disagree on the six mages being that difficult... six wizard slayers? I think a party like this is waiting on que to be played by someone I know...one how tries to accomplish the impossible?

[This message has been edited by zantetsuken (edited September 18, 2001).]

 

*sigh* zantetsuken, you're completely ignoring my point. I don't think six mages would be so hard because mages are hard to play. I think six mages would be hard because there wouldn't be enough weapons, armor, or other items for all of them, unless you cheat. Mages are very restricted in what items they can use. Playing six mages would be *much* harder than soloing one, because there aren't six Robes of Vecna lying around. You couldn't put the one or two good items for a mage on teh same one or two characters. You'd have to spread them out. Your mages would die like flies.

Your party of multiclass spellcasters is a completely different kettle of fish and not relevant to the point I'm making. I think a party of six mage-thieves, mage-clerics, and fighter-mage-thieves would easily wipe the floor with the game, indeed.

 

Allow me to fill you with wise words of wisdom....
1,The worst character someone can find is the one he attempts to create that way.
Or
2,A person is only as bad as the person in charge.
Or even the old Sun Tsu saying I think fits here (though it more goes for personal characters)
3,Know yourself, know your enemy, and you hold the key to victory...know yourself, but fail to reckognise the enemy,and you will lose and win in balance....but failure to reguard ones skill and weakness, as well asin yourself...and you will lose time and time again. "Sun Tsu, The art of war"

Al im saying is that if you think a character is poor, you will end up neglecting him/her, and if you dont see their good side (i.e some people would say Nalia is poor, but the small thief side of her will often prove useful)

As for the Final "Sun Tsu" reference, it rougly translates into...
If you kow your weaknesses, and can use them effectively against a foe(!), as well as keeping an eye on you opponents flaws, you will almost certainly win (a good example would be the party in the sewers in the temple district, as you will notice they are rather friendly with their spell casters, so either silence them, or drag their fighters away fom them.)

 

Ohh...sorry I couldn't get to what you had meant sooner...

Six Pure-Mage Party...hmmm....
Why don't we see how well I'll go along with this one?
Post back after developments occur....

 

Hmmmm... If by worst you mean least fun, then take a party of 6 monks.....

 

This is an entertaining post.

One short note to Tjekanefir. 6 wizard slayer is very hard? try One, call it solo. The mighty fine Earl Gray did this:
http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002714.html

6 monks aye wildfire Sounds like a bad Bruce Lee movie to me

Fun to play 6 bards, it is. But I agree with Tjekanefir. They are not hard to play through BG2. Leveldraining is annoying though. Damn wamps They should know better than to bite the band.

[This message has been edited by Nobleman (edited September 19, 2001).]

 

How about 6 Kensai you DON'T dual-class. Even a band of Kobold archers stands a decent chance of killing someone before they close. Sure, Kensai are blenders in one-on-one combat... but in mobs of monsters their pitiful AC makes it hard.

 

I think six wizard slayers would be much harder than one. Unless you were playing that any time one died, you left him behind and went on with a smaller party. Then you'd probably finish the game eventually with two wizard slayers, the rest having died long ago. (-:

 

Uh? Its rather hard for one cause he hits the Xp-cap pretty soon. I don't see the logic behind your post.

Against many small oponents a solo Wizard slayer will spend much longer time to slaughter them and be the single target. Thus dies more=more reloads

Against one single target he delivers 1/6 of the damage to the opponent than 6 W-slayers and will spend much longer time to slaughter them. Thus dies more=more reloads.

Please elaborate on your knowledge.

 

Unless I'm mistaken here (never played a wiz slayer before), the only magic item they can use is healing potions. No regeneration items, no way of casting healing spells, nothing. The number of healing potions in the game is very limited. There are enough for one to make it through, but six? I disbelieve it.

I already know that any class could solo the game with patience and good tactics. I'm not worried about any intrepid soul making it through alone. But six guys all of whom are seriously item-restricted in the exact same way would wear themselves much too thin trying to share the wealth, whereas the soloist could at least hog all the stuff for himself.

 

The Wizard Slayer can use magic weapons and armour, at least that's what the kit description says.

 

Completely true. only armor and weapons.
So a good sword is one that gives immunities to char,hold,stun,fear etc. Espeicially when soloing

They can't drink potions in my version. But perhaps you have a patch Tjekanefir.

even if they could its Fuzzy logic Tjek. 6 persons wont overall endure as much pain as a soloist. Reread my post above. So the use of healing potions will be less. Even so you can always send the one with the best equipment into a fight alone. The problem with solo is the Xp-cap. Damn IF I had jsut not lost my CD's on vacation. damn. bugger. damn. I really need a good No-CD-patch

[This message has been edited by Nobleman (edited September 20, 2001).]

 

I've never even tried a wizard slayer. (-: If they can't even use potions, I give the six-guy party an even worse chance of getting through all in one piece. There may be one sword that regenerates HP for you, but there sure aren't six.

I find soloing a little easier than a full party in some ways, because there's only one guy's health to worry about. You can also give all the best items and protections to just one guy, and watch him go. Sometimes even when I have a full party, I'll send the main character into an area alone to do a tricky part. How many of us have sent the one guy with the reflecting cloak through the beholder lair, when his NPCs would have been toast? I, personally, like to send only one character in against illithids whenever possible, because he can drink up genius potions and protect himself against charm and holding and then he won't have to worry about all his NPCs getting dominated and their brains sucked out and everything while he's busy killing.

If the whole party was made up of people who all shared the same item restrictions, I think it'd be significantly *harder* than soloing.

But it's all idle speculation on my part, really. Let's see how Zantetsuken's six-mage party fares--they're a lot less item-restricted than wiz slayers, but they should still face a decided shortage of armory.

 

Bring me the book of armanment!
Quote Monty Python


I am sure this books tells the truth.
I would love to debate this somemore but I just realised that my answer to that post would be the same as my previous post.

The bloke with the best equipment can still go in alone. Noone says you have to rush in full throttle.

I want to playtest. I want to play test I wnat my CD's
Anyway I tried that mage thing ages ago. I stopped in the underdark because it was boring. Not hard.