Women Bishops.

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But if a Woman was called by the lord, the Men still wouldn't let her in.

 

Paul or Peter or one of those dudes wrote that women should not speak in church. Thus if you are a believer in the bible and the stuff written there you cannot condone female priests and whatnot.

The Swedish church is shock full of heretics who are more concerned about being PC than the madness that they call religion. If you want to call yourself christian you shouldnt try to gloss over what is considered un-PC in todays society. Stand up and be proud over all the lunacy within that book or go create your own religion. This hypocrasy just projects a false and smoothed over image of the poison that is religion.

Ooh, I am on fire today.

 

So priests aren't allowed to like their job? Plus, that still doesn't explain why woemn can't be called.

 

It should have read that man is not incapable of raising a child, but that women, usually are better at it. May still draw disagreement, but at least it isn't quite as embarrassing that way...

But Women are NOT called as priesthood in my religion, due to the fact that their duties (as wife and mother) are more sacred and more important than those of the Priesthood...

Spoken like a true non-believer. It might interest you to know that my religion doesn't pay their priesthood. Secondly, women do play vital roles within the congregation, including most of the teachers of the children, many other teaching position, and leadership in Auxiliaries for Children, teenage girls and the adult women. Some of the women that have been there for years are sought for advice on matters of doctrine as readily as those of the priesthood simply because they too would have likely be well learned in the Gospel.

I'm not sure of that reference. Could you please clarify this? I know that in my religion, Women are as readily chosen to speak in sacrement as the men...

I've tried being honest, only to be invited to join you in the 21st century. I look at what these people are offering, and it turns my stomach. They would see religion twisted to accomodate things that are politically correct, regardless of what the doctrine teaches. That, would be true Hypocricy...

Actually, there are spiritual rewards to those who faithfully serve, but at times it can be very stressful too. I have stated the reason why my religion doesn't have female clergy earlier on, but had it called ...

 

As I understand we are saying the same thing except from completely different stand points.

 

Well, if a religion's doctrines allow it fine. If the doctrines of a church do not, then no. There are solid reasons that many churches give for the division of labour in their setup, many of them, of course, derived from Biblical sources. In my case, the sources come from the Bible and modern revelation. I do not believe for one second that it is about "keeping women in their place" or "denying women a voice in the church" or any such nonsense. Others can call that BS, naive, or whatever, and they're entitled to that opinion, but that doesn't change my position.

I believe that the doctrines of my faith have been given to us by God. We do not change them by majority vote (though we can reject those doctrines, but if we so do then we are turning away from God, which is not a good idea, IMHO). Those who believe that I'm either A) lying or B) deluded in my belief that our practices are divinely inspired are welcome to said opinion, but my position remains unchanged.

 

What would happen if a Mormon Woman (who for the sake of arguement was unable to have children and had no wish to get married) was to claim to have been commanded by God to join the priesthood? Or does God only speak to certain male Mormons?

 

First, Even if the woman is incapable of bearing children, she would still be expected to marry. Adoption is always an alternative in such cases.

Secondly, Since the Priesthood was restored to Loseph Smith and Oliver Cowdrey, all priesthood callings are extended, by guidance of the spirit, by local priesthood authority, so if a calling requires the Priesthood, then women would not be called to such a position. The Priesthood is usually extended to all worthy men, as young as twelve for the first position of the Aaronic (lesser) Priesthood, and at Adulthood for the Melchezidek (higher) Priesthood.

 

Yes, please, someone take it. Better yet, let's not bother, and say we did. We could even go back to the Romans to find a true patriarchal society - but again, why would we want to? The Roman men didn't marry their women, they owned them. But wait, Paul was a Roman (who never gave up his Roman citizenship). But we won't hold that against him, especially regarding his view of women. But a good tip off to women everywhere: If you see the word "Roman" appear anywhere, run like the wind if you value your freedom.

[ July 22, 2005, 08:10: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

At Creation, Woman was meant to be a Companion and Help Mate to man, not a slave or a toy. Man and Woman ought to be equal in almost all respects, but God gave women certain spiritual gifts to aid her in her roles as wife and mother, and gave man certain spiritual gifts to aid him in roles of husband and father. The Priesthood was given to man, and he is given certain siritual gifts to aid in those duties as well.

 

Or was it to Help Man to mate? Huhuhu, I love it when I'm funny.

But honestly, this "almost equal" stuff is one of the key points why many people dislike religion. At least, in older times men were honest enough to voice their resentments against women. Today, not much of the point of view has changed - but people try to disguise their disrespect for women with words of "special spiritual gifts".

Look at your last post: Women were given motherhood. Men were given fatherhood and priesthood. I can see that fatherhood and motherhood are balanced out quite nicely - but where exactly is the counterweight given to women for the priesthood of men?

 

Well said Chandros

 

Actually, the Priesthood enables men to perform their duties as Fathers. Further, some of the positions that Women hold are just as important as those which men hold. It's just differing job titles and responsibilities, that's all.

 

You mean I'm no good as a father because I'm not a priest? Ah. And which important job do women hold that is not open for men? Don't answer "giving birth", please.

 

There are general auxiliaries for Women, Young Women and the Primary (children). Women preside over them at Ward, Stake and Church-wide levels. Having a man preside over young women is not exactly appropriate, is it?

Further, I resent your claim that Motherhood ends at birth. The Mother is placed at the Crossroads of the Home, in position to know where the children are going, what they plan to do and when they plan to return. She is in position to know what they did when they return to the home and what they bring in with them. I once likened the Mother to a Customs agent. She is expected to ask these questions, and is entitled to personal revelation (think of Mother's Intuition) to enable her to know what warnings and counsel to give, and to know when her children are lying...

The Mother is placed as an equal to the Father in the home. While the Father may preside over the home, he is not to ignore the counsel of his wife in all things. The mother is the primary teacher of the children, and it is her that the little ones will come to first with questions...

 

Yeah. Like I said that motherhood ends at birth. Where did you get that from?!

Again: the woman is placed as an equal to the man in the home. All right. Now, if women were placed as equal to men in the church as well, then we wouldn't have an issue. But this is not the case, neither in your church nor in mine. You said that in compensation for not being able to become a priest a woman receives something else from the lord, some other duty or job or whatever. My simple question was: where does the woman have more power than the man? The home? You said that this was not the case but that mother and father were equal in the home.

All in all, the women pulled the shortest straw again, yes?

And could you enlighten my with regard to me being not able to perform my duties as a father?

Regarding women's intuition: any man who spends as much time near his children as a woman normally does will have an equally strong bond to his offspring. It is regarded as a women's thing merely because of the far bigger amount of time women tend to spend at home in today's society. It is not really an inherent feature of womenhood alone.

 

@Darkthrone - your church ? Which church you mean ?

This discussion is slightly funny for me. It's very interesting how many non-believers have so much to say about Church, and how it should look like and behave. Funny to say the least.
How some of you do normally react to similar situation ? Maybe I should say how I think few atheists, agnostics, and the rest should behave and treat each other ?...

 

You're allready doing that you know, in issues such as abortion and gay marriage.