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Why wasn't the Baghdad Museum protected?

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Mithrantir, Apr 16, 2003.

  1. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    BTA, you're a pain :D

    Arright. I don't look it up in the dictionary, but my definiton of "infrastructure" is, every structure, physical or social, needed for the purpose. So, Oil-infrastructure does include for me (a layman :D ) raffineries, pipe-lines, transportation and the bureaucracy (the oil ministry, including it's employees and files).

    BTA wrote:

    gotcha :happy: :D . They should have anticipated it, because they were warned.

    From above:

    Connection to 1991,2 Gulf War. Big scale robbery happened there already.

    Robbery, theft -> priceless works. Articles I read presume a organized theft like 1991.Because someone took the time, and destroyed the inventary of the museum. Seems like someone or a number or different someones prepared for the opportunity, the war would give. Like WWII. There still finding priceless works which have "disappeared" in WWII.
    Priceless means priceless $$$$$$$$

    [ April 16, 2003, 23:18: Message edited by: Yago ]
     
  2. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    Didn't mean to imply you had no brain, Yago! But I think she'll be angry at the looters who looted the hospitals. Going back to the sort of example I used earlier, if someone steals my car, I am angry at the thief, not the cops. No society has a 0 crime rate, and to expect the U.S. to be able to create one in Iraq is completely unfair and illogical. But the setup they will make, as I said before, is going to be much better than Saddam's, and in the end, that's what counts.

    [ April 17, 2003, 07:06: Message edited by: Depaara ]
     
  3. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    At Deepara. I was joking ;) . But nice you cared. :)

    And the woman-issue. I think only time will tell. Maybe she's angry at both ?
     
  4. Mithrantir Gems: 15/31
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    I want to say that the people looting in Iraq are not only Iraqies people from neighbouring countries have smelled the opportunity and took their chances. And all of them the last thing they would like to do is to meddle with the invasion force.
    So if the USA had put 10 or 15 soldiers within the museum and told them to stay there and show themselves once in a while there would be no looting.
    Secondly BTA please stop the america bashing thing. I don't accuse the citizens of the USA i accuse the people in the goverment of USA. that is a different thing. If it is necessary i will accuse my own goverment if something goes wrong or bad because of her mistakes. This is not Greece bashing it is the truth and even if it is painfull it is essential for me.
    Secondly yesterday i heard that some "people" tried to loot the synagogue of Baghdad. The Iraqies of the vicinity defended the synagogue if this tells you anything about the people of Iraq. They said afterwards that the jews lived so long with them that they feeled it was the only thing to do. Do you still thing that every looter is Iraqi;
    And scums live everywhere meaning that maybe even some americans may have used this opportunity to enrich their collection of ancient artifacts don't forget that (that includes Greek scums too) :(
     
  5. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    You have no idea what it would have taken to prevent the looting, because you weren't there. There have been several instances where crowds of civilians stood up to the coalition forces to prevent them for going somewhere they didn't want.

    Oh really? And where did I say you accused the citizens of the USA? You accused the US Army of a lack of respect because they didn't guard a museum. Are they the people in the government? No.

    As I pointed out, theft I could understand, and I don't feel that is such a horrible thing because at least the artifacts still exist, and there's a chance for recovery. It is the mindless destruction of these things that I don't understand. What would a foreigner gain by the destruction? Why would someone from outside the country come into a war zone to destroy antiquities?
     
  6. Charlie Gems: 14/31
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    Here we go again. I stopped reading after the first five posts. I think the point is that SOMEONE should try to protect these cultural treasures. Perhaps coalition troops are the best choice. Who the f*** cares why these treasures are being looted or destroyed. The fact is they are.
     
  7. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2958009.stm

    Three White House cultural advisers have resigned in protest at the failure of US forces to prevent the looting of Iraq's national museum - home to artefacts dating back 10,000 years.

    "It didn't have to happen", Martin Sullivan - who chaired the President's Advisory Committee on Cultural Property for eight years - told Reuters news agency.

    "In a pre-emptive war that's the kind of thing you should have planned for," he said.
     
  8. ejsmith Gems: 25/31
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    Wow.

    BTA, I'm impressed. Right down to the quotes, and rhetorical questions, that is exactly what I've been thinking all this time.

    Good call!
     
  9. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Because oil is more important.
     
  10. Shell

    Shell Awww, come and give me a big hug!

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    Iraq has culture???
     
  11. BOC

    BOC Let the wild run free Veteran

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    When Europeans were living in caves, the people of Mesopotamia developed the first civilization. So, the answer to your question is yes, Iraq has a culture and a history of almost 5000 years.
     
  12. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    Iraq has YOUR culture. Mesopotamia is the cradle of western civilization. The development of the alphabet, with which you write now, started there. Ever heard of Babylon, the Hanging Gardens, Adam and Eve, Abraham or the famous law code of Hammurabi. It's still cited today:"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."
     
  13. Mithrantir Gems: 15/31
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    Neither were you BTA and it would worth the effort. IMO the need for protection of the museum would not be so demanding because most of the people who got in there just wanted to loot and not to engage in a fight. In case of a fight there would be many civilians who would oppose the looters.
    No they aren't but they represent the goverment by following orders issued by the goverment aren't they;
    From whom; the US army can't keep the order how on earth will they find out who took them; And don't forget that there are many private collections that don't officially exist. Most chances are that these artifacts will end up there.
    They destroyed the statues and pieces that could not be removed without trucks in order to take pieces of them.
    Much greater than most nations in the world.
    That includes your country. :rolleyes:
     
  14. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    The last report I heard stated that the "looting" was much more like a highly planned heist. THAT would be very difficult to stop, even in a country that's stable at the moment.

    No one, not even the Americans themselves, claimed to be able to step in and create Utopia in a day. Why isn't there a thread about Saddam's palaces, or the prisons that had children in them, or the relief work being done by the military trying to restore services? I'll answer that: these topics don't make the Americans look bad. I'm all for seeing the other side of things -- the coalition is not lily white, and neither are the Americans as a whole, but spare me the ridiculous attempts to make them look like Satan himself. The bottom line is, the people who took those things are criminals. Blaming their behaviour on the Americans is . . .yeah, I'm going to go overboard, just plain stupid. No one has ever successfully refuted my analogy about the wife beating (see above, April 16 post), all they did was ignore it and keep unreasonably bashing the Americans.
     
  15. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    Start one. :thumb:

    But 2-3 tanks and a group of Marines would have been enough, I think. Confessing I don't have clue about troop movement. But they've been warned beforehand of an organised robbery (post above) and US-Officals have resigned in protest, indicating, there could have been something done.

    I don't think Americans in general look bad, only Rumsfeld, Rice, Bush, Cheney and some in the Pentagon. Actually, Halle Berry looks nice. The Museum was just the tip of the iceberg, of a faulty plan called "reshaping the middle east".
     
  16. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    They've more than likely been warned of hundreds, maybe thousands of possible scenarios, for which they can take precautions but cannot plausibly plan for and stop with 100% accuracy. Why on earth people are trying to pin the actions of group A (thieves, looters, whatever) on Group B (American troops, american military decision makers, etc) is beyond me.
     
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