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Why is this forum still here?

Discussion in 'Baldur's Gate 3' started by Marceror, Jul 16, 2006.

  1. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Wow, this little thread is still plugging along.

    I'm pretty convinced--call me jaded--that when and if BG3 is created, it will be a disappointment.

    Computer games just aren't made the way they were back in the days of the Baldur's Gate series. Creativity routinely takes a back seat to inflexible deadlines, and games get released unfinished and feeling rather uninspired.

    It seems that all but gone are the days of gaming geeks getting together and building amazing games that don't get released until they're ready, and filled with massive amounts of content highly interesting content.

    In my opinion, the Baldur's Gate series will never be topped (or more precisely, equaled) from an immersion, content, and sheer "oh my god" perspective. Graphics-wise, sure we've topped this series eons ago, but stunning, CPU-screeching graphics weren’t enough to keep me hooked for long enough to complete Neverwinter Nights 2. I lost interest on that one somewhere in chapter 2 after getting tired of tweaking graphic settings to maximize FPS and battling to maintain some semblance of control over my party. Oh, and it was something of an insult to my intelligence that the game only gave the "illusion" of choice so often.

    * * * *

    "No Khelgar, over my dead body am I going to travel with your Dwarven arse!! I'd sooner kill you than travel with you!" -- load next scene -- Khelgar says something like, "I'm glad you've decided to accept me as your life-long companion. We’d better get a move on then."

    Holy mother of god. Please, god, tell me that didn't just happen. /quits game in disgust.

    * * * *

    I couldn’t get through NWN2 once, yet I’ve completed all of the games in the BG series, including the expansions, numerous times. I guess that after you know how good something can be, it’s hard to settle for less.

    Yep, I'm jaded, and have had my hopes dashed by developers/publishers a few too many times, I’m afraid. And as long as Atari owns the rights to D&D, well, hell, I won't even waste my time by going there.

    BG1 and BG2, and Planescape Torment for that matter, were the full package. You take out too much of what’s there, and you start to lose the magic, and end up with an average game instead of a masterpiece. This is what seems to happen with every single CRPG that’s come out since—so much wasted potential. Tis a shame :(
     
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  3. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Layoffs are always an unfortunate scenario, but being that BG 3 is merely an idea at this point, I'd say that this will have no impact on the non-existent BG 3.
     
  4. Equester Gems: 18/31
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  5. starwalker Gems: 16/31
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    Something to keep in mind is that they could easily do what they did with Doom 3. A recreation and a new Storyline. Carry on the name without necessarily making it an outright continuation of the same line.

    Which is something to really think about. It could be good and in some ways it's what AD&D is about.
     
  6. Shivan Gems: 1/31
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    Alright, having played NWN finally, and discovering that I hate it, I fervently wish for a BG3 that uses the same setup as the originals did. In fact, if they could remake the original BG and BG2 and ToB with the latest version of D&D and current gen graphics and such, I'd totally buy it.

    You know, one of these days the game companies (more likely the publishers rather than the developers) will realize thar's gold in them thar old games to be refurbished. I vote for recycling the old games, taking the essence of the game and polishing it to today's standards. I would totally buy a refurbished version of the original command and conquer. Hell, Valve already refurbished one of their games a little... outfitting the original Half-life with Source and including it free with 2. Didn't change it much, but it looked better and felt a little better. But I would never have PAYED for Half-life Source... a refurbished game should be completely decked out with current-gen bells and whistles, bringing the old game back into new life, worth every penny.

    Anyway yeah... a new BG game, the same top-down 6 character formula, new story, latest verison of D&D, decent enough graphics, and hundreds of hours of play time, and I'm sold :p

    I don't want much, do I?...
     
  7. Equester Gems: 18/31
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    well there is a fan project going in nwn2, where they are recreating BG with the NWN2 engine, if they pull it off it will be awesome.
     
  8. Merlanni

    Merlanni ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Icewind gate was not bad. It was very different to play bg2 with the icewind dale ruleset.
     
  9. omnigodly Gems: 17/31
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    The real question of BG3 is WHO will make it, not IF it will be made. If it's Obsidian, I would like to call for a boycott and ignore it's existence. Many games have seen the deeper end of a dump and never been heard of ever again and I can name more than 1 that came from that company.

    I wish Bioware would have kept it and made more, but I'm sure they would rather work on new projects, like their Xbox game coming out soon. Hopefully the next installment will be made by a company like Blizzard or Bioware who are actually willing to put work into make the game good.
     
  10. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Oh my. If Blizzard were to take on BG3...I think I'd even play it with it having 3e rules!
     
  11. omnigodly Gems: 17/31
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    I didn't even consider Blizzard making BG3... haha... it's mind blowing :p , but I don't know if it would turn out too well. Blizz is good at Action Adventure (Diablo and WoW), not cRPG.

    (Then again NWN2 is a AA, not a cRPG if you get down to the essentials).
     
  12. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Actually, Blizzard has been best at strategy. Warcrafts 1 through 3 and Starcraft were all great games. Though considering their only forays into RPG territory spawned the Diablo series and an MMO (which is the spawn of Satan, as far as I'm concerned :p ), I'm a bit less happy at the thought of them making it. But you simply can't deny their ability to spin a story, which is an important part of any RPG.
     
  13. Meatdog Gems: 15/31
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    Yes, Blizzard has very compelling stories in their strategy games. However, they lacked an essential part to make it into a crpg like bg: choice. The story lines are great, but very linear. There is no choice. In the case of a strategy game, that's not that bad, as you're the field commander, not the main character of the story.

    However, Blizzard games are very entertaining with rather easy and intuitive controls. So I'd not be opposed to them making it. However, there's still the legal issue of the d&d rules. I don't see Blizzard going after them, since they have their own rules, and more important: their own universe(s). They already have the warcraft and starcraft universes to work with. Why would they work in the d&d universe, where they are less free and people would only compare it to their warcraft universe?

    It's a bit the same reason why Bioware makes their own universes now: freedom. Hence, it will only be a company that for some reason cannot create their own universe that will probably develop BG3 if ever it gets developed. Look at NWN2. Bioware didn't even develop it themselves. Even they got to the point they don't need to license universes from other peope anymore. Their brand is already widely recognised, just as Blizzard.
     
  14. Shivan Gems: 1/31
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    Yeah, that's a neat idea, an indie developer coming along to make BG3... assuming they had a producer with the cash to make it happen with decent development time.

    However, it has to remain in the world of Faerun (or whatever the world of BG is called... I don't remember suddenly). It could not keep the name Baldur's Gate and be baldur's gate without being in the same universe.

    If you just want a spiritual successor... just wait for the next multiple character rpg with multiclassing, and voila. But it won't be BG3 unless either Bioware makes it or it's set in the BG universe. Even if some other party came along and said they loved BG so much that whatever game they're making is a spiritual successor... what right do they have to call it that? Who are they? They've got no cred. And yeah, if Obsidian tried to do it... I'm all for that boycott. Kotor2 was technically superior to Kotor1 in many ways (feats, forces, etc), but there are plot holes and dead ends enough for their motto to be- Obsidian: where plots go to die. Sure the basic main plot was decent enough... but it was shaky, oh yes. Then again, maybe the story and plots of Kotor weren't in the hands of either developer... maybe lucasarts was in control of that? To make sure it stuck with the star wars themes? anyway...

    I just hope they don't try to continue the whole Child of Bhaal thing... except in dialog about history or something. They need to put that in the past and start a whole new exciting, powerful story, maybe this time heading more towards the Blood War... that'd be interesting.
     
  15. Rawgrim Gems: 21/31
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    Bg3 will definatly be in 3d though. as well as in 3.5 ed d&d rules. Both of these factors will completely ruin the game. Bigtime. I hope BG3 never gets made. BG2 ended great and should stay that way so it will remain a classic story.
     
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    As earlier mentioned I would by bg3 even if it was graphically enhanced version of Child of Bhaal Storyline (maybe including few more places to go in BG2 and more sidequests [hey it would be new game after all])
     
  17. Meatdog Gems: 15/31
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    Actually, it's not completely Obsidian's fault for what went wrong in kotor2. They were just to small to put off the distributor until the game was completely finished, leading to dead ends in plots, since they didn't get the time to finish them, although they were initially planned. The advantage of a big developer is that it can say it won't release the title until it is really finished, but small startups like Obsidian don't have the financial means to survive that.

    I'm not against Obsidian developing the game. You forget it's the people that make Obsidian that actually worked as Black Isle on BG together with Bioware. Maybe a joint operation of both again would be nice. Bioware would bring the technical skills, in which they are superior to Obsidian, and the big money so as to not have to rush out the game prematurely. Obsidian would bring great character development and superb scenario writers. Both companies have their strengths and it is the combination of both that made the original BG such a success.

    They afterwards both tried to do it solo, Bioware with Icewind Dale and Black Isle (Obsidian) with Planescape Torment, both inferior to BG on one point or another. ID on actual RPG elements and immersiveness. PT on technical level (remember the sluggishness?).
     
  18. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Actually, BIS didn't have much to do with the original Baldur's Gate. BioWare developed it for BIS, sharing certain common resources like sound/voice recording with Interplay (and BIS, by association).

    Also, BIS developed both Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment. As for "inferiority", that's kind of like saying that apples are inferior to oranges. You can make such a claim based on personal taste, but that makes it your subjective view and nothing more. I certainly had as much fun with the original IWD as I had with BG, despite them being games with significantly different concepts. IWD has never pretended to be anything else but a good hack & slash game. And for people able to enjoy a hack & slash game, it was very good indeed.

    As for Planescape: Torment, today its lack of higher resolution options is a detriment to its enjoyment for many, though I still have hopes that the vast IE modding community might actually produce a mod that will allow for higher resolutions one day (even if only 800x600). The sluggishness that you mention was a bug present in the unpatched game and corrected with the first patch and hasn't been a problem since. I've certainly never experienced it during several PS:T plays.

    But frankly, considering the plethora of other aspects where PS:T excels, even the 640x480 resolution is but a small inconvenience.
     
  19. Meatdog Gems: 15/31
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    Actually, in a game like PST the low resolution is less killer than in a game like BG where it limits your tactical view of the party.

    It's true, I should have phrased the inferiority part better, and use a less strict word. I just meant that BG was so successful because of the blend in tactical combat and engaging characters and story line. Both PST and IWD, although being better at what they do than BG, only cover one of the aspects.

    From a story and (non-player) character development, PST is even more fleshed out than BG (although there can be discussion about BG2). And considering challenging combat, you can't be better served by ie games than by IWD. However, they did not offer the blend, the exact point that made BG so popular. BG isn't as extreme in the two main gaming axis as the other two, but it merges them nicely together in a coherent package.

    Both roleplayers as powergamers can fully enjoy BG while both be put off respectively by IWD and PST.

    This is what I meant with inferiority. Not so much a general inferiority, as well that they were inferior in scope to BG, regarding the different possible avenues a crpg can go down.

    Considering your comparing apples with oranges, I consider it more comparing chocolate cake, whipped cream and cherries with Schwarzwälder Kirschtorte. ;)
     
  20. omnigodly Gems: 17/31
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    Honestly, if BG3 was made as a 3d version of BG1-BG2:ToB, I would finally be able to get my friends to play it. Their only complaint and reason for not buying/playing BG2 (much less BG1), is the poor graphics. They are so accustomed to having nice graphics and resolutions that the BG series is unplayable for them.

    This doesn't go for people who started on the BG series, (honestly I can't stand BG1 without tutu, because I started off with the gorgeous BG2 graphics), but for everyone else, especially the huge uprising in the new generation of gamers, it's not enough to have good gameplay (which is a concept long forgotten it seems), they need the graphics.

    Honestly, if they can do BG2 type graphics, but 3d, it would be wonderful. I wouldn't even be opposed to a FP-RPG version of BG, with fully autonomous NPC's that don't suck. It would be very awesome to have uncontrollable NPC's, with good use of Skills standing behind you, doing their own thing - a true D&D experience.
     
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