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Who has more power: Irenicus or Elminster?

Discussion in 'Dungeons & Dragons + Other RPGs' started by Xerxes, Nov 12, 2003.

  1. Shura Gems: 25/31
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    Has anyone paid any attention at all to my previous post? :rolleyes:

    It's right out of the FRCS, which means it is sanctioned by WOTC, which means that that is Elminster's official take on why he does not waste every evil guy in Faerun.

    Which means that any debate on why Elminster is so ambivalent in the face of the Zhentarim, Red Wizards or Night Masks is totally unnecessary.

    Bah. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  2. The Netherlord Gems: 1/31
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    quote:
    Fzoul? Isn't he the one Elminster's been whopping around who knows how many times. I don't remember if it's Fzoul or whatever who had most of his power in having hidden clones around Faerún where his spirit would be transferred every time he died, effectively making him immortal. But if that was the case, then in the last encounter Elminster had with him (Crown of Fire), Elminster kicked his arse clearly and reminded him before he escaped that if he got any more powerful, Elminster would personally reserve the time to hunt down and kill every last one of his clones making and end to it once and for all.


    No that is Manshoon... Fzoul was the high priest of Bane, who was chosen as Banes avatar during the times of troubles.

    [ December 17, 2003, 19:29: Message edited by: TheNetherlord ]
     
  3. Tronak el Karbaro Gems: 6/31
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    I have killed them both-Yeah, you Find elminster in BG2, just keep your eyes open and have Jaheira in your party-so, I just don´t mind. But according to the Forgotten Realms creator, Ed Greenwood, there´s no character more powerful than Elminster on the surface of Faerun...Except a couple of mine ;)
     
  4. Mystery Gems: 1/31
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    And how about Tarrasque? how would he go with Elminster?
     
  5. Elan Morin Tedronai Gems: 10/31
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    No match for Elmo... Yeah, that's right, he's just no match for the mighty Elmo. Sezam...
     
  6. Xerxes Gems: 3/31
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    OMG! my very first post revived, AGAIN! :eek: first time lucky ey? hehe :grin:
     
  7. Baronius

    Baronius Mental harmony dispels the darkness ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    I think we should separate the "real" Elminster and the character determined by the Bioware guys. In ToB, Elminster does not seem too powerful...

    If we decide this according to Irenicus's spells, it can be true: he has no spells that can decrease magic resistance. However, if we see the Exile's levels, it greatly exceeds Drizzt's. In the latter case, Irenicus should win.
    By the way, Irenicus is so weak in BGII because of his worthless scripts... The battle on the Tree of Life is simply ridiculous...
     
  8. Zephyr Angel Gems: 7/31
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    And that is true... to a point.

    The current Mystra is actually a friend of Cyric and Kelemvor, I cant really remember her name , oh yes, its Midnight.

    She assumed the name of Mystra so as not to confuse the followers of the now dead former Goddess of Magic.

    As Cyric and Kelemvor before her, Ao gave them godhood as a boon to their efforts in the Times of Trouble. Cyric became the Mad one, assuming Bane's portfolio.
    Kelemvor took over from Myrkul.
    Midnight became the Mystra's successor.

    That said, I am puzzled, what of Bhaal's Essence?
    since the Bhaalspawns were totally wiped out from the face of Aber-Toril, and the last one refused to take over His throne (assuming you did the good thing), who did end up as the new lord of Murder?
    I mean, there must be someone that looks after this, even when the real one is gone?
     
  9. Sparhawk the Pandion Gems: 14/31
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    I believe Cyric looks after that now.
     
  10. Elan Morin Tedronai Gems: 10/31
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    True... I battled him single-handedly only with my main Fighter/Mage. What a joke...
     
  11. omnigodly Gems: 17/31
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    Well, if you go into Forgotten realms, The most powerful being is the Overdiety :rolleyes:

    Oh, and there is a spelled called annihalation(SP?), it is a spell only the greater gods have, (and only a few of them), that basically makes the save for instant death about 1000... No god can survive it, and Thor is the strongest god, (who can cast it making him the deadliest god).

    Back to Elminster vs. Irenicus... No question Elminster wins. But Elminster cannot defeat anything that is not mortal.
    Gods have profiles and all of which include a spell that is called, Alter Reality. What it does is anything :D
     
  12. Errol Gems: 23/31
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    [​IMG] SPOILERS for you who don't wanna see, look away ;)

    That post was pointless, Omnigodly.
    No, they don't. There is no such spell in FR.
    No, they don't. Anyway, why would 'having a profile' make a god invincible?

    Just to clarify Elminster's levels and stats for all to see (Rulebook version, not Game version):

    Elminster
    Male Human (Chosen of Mystra) Fighter 1/ Rogue 2/ Cleric 3/ Wizard 20/ Archmage 5/ Epic 4.
    CR: 39
    Chaotic Good (Not neutral)
    Str: 13
    Dex: 18
    Con: 24 (+10 from Mystra btw)
    Int: 24 (He used a wish spell to increase it)
    Wis: 18
    Cha: 17
    Chosen Immunities (Mystra):
    Elminster is completely immune and unnafected by attacks that mimic or duplicate these effects:
    Detect Thoughts, Disintigrate, Evard's Black Tentacles, Feeblemind, Finger of Death, Fireball, Magic Missile, Sunburst, Temporal Stasis.

    I just want to say a few things here too. Some of you said Elm could kick Khelben's ass. Well, maybe not, since Khelben Arunsun is a Chosen of Mystra too, and a Wizard 20/Archmage 3/Epic 4, with STR 14, Dex 16, Con 26, INt 22, Wis 20, Cha 15. Some may not know that Khelben helped found the Harpers (which he later left), grew up in Myth Drannor and has access to many (if not all) of the magical resources Elminster has.

    The Simbul, as someone said, may be more powerful. She is also a Chosen of Mystra and is actually a Sorcerer 20, Archmage 2, Wizard 10 (No Epic levels though). Statwise: Str 14, Dex 18, Con 26, INt 20, Wis 15, Cha 20. Some quotes here too:
    "She mastered Metamagic long, long ago and has singelhandedly defeated attacking Thayan armies with titanic combinations of spells."
    "She still seems more driven to master magic than anyone else in Faerun... and eems quite likely to do so."
    hehe, and
    "She is currenlt the lover of the famous wizard Elminster of Shadowdale..." So I don't think they'll be duking it out.
    "Red Wizards have been known to faint at the mere thought of faving her in battle."
    Oh and due to Wishes and Magical experimentation, she has the following supernatural abilities: Detect Magic (Always active), Protection from Evil, Protection from Spells (!), See Invisibility and Shapechange. She is also supernaturally protected as if though wearing a Ring of Protection +3 and Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location. She can transform herself into a Chain Lightning that works as a meteor effect at a speed of 70ft.

    She may be the most powerful magic user, maybe indeed.

    (Sorry for the long post, but this may clear a lot of things up.)
     
  13. The Netherlord Gems: 1/31
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    quote:
    The current Mystra is actually a friend of Cyric and Kelemvor, I cant really remember her name , oh yes, its Midnight.

    That is not the impression I got... Actually She WAS a friend of him, but he betrayed her a few too many times, and later turned into a very evil god... And since she is good and has several personal reasons to hate him she isn't a friend of Cyric, she is rather one of his most determined and powerful enemies...

    quote:
    Cyric became the Mad one, assuming Bane's portfolio

    well yeees... but he also got large parts of bhaals portfolio... He got murder and kelemvor got ordinary death

    quote:
    That said, I am puzzled, what of Bhaal's Essence?
    since the Bhaalspawns were totally wiped out from the face of Aber-Toril, and the last one refused to take over His throne (assuming you did the good thing), who did end up as the new lord of Murder?
    I mean, there must be someone that looks after this, even when the real one is gone?

    Well of course there is... Cyric of course! that is one of the reasons for the BG protagonist to run into him all the time.
    But it is only the part of bhaal's essence, which hasn't been stored in his children that Cyric didn't inherit.
    I believe that the fate of the children's essence is the whole point of the BG 2 exp... Oh BTW officially Abdel refused the essence and it was hidden away under some mountain or something.. never to be found again. (officially means that if they create a game that takes place after this bhaalspawn-saga that is what they are going to say happened in that period)

    By the way has anyone read the avatar books? Well I got the danish translation of them and it were never mentioned that Kelemvor got anything. Only that Midnight took/got Mystra's place and Cyric took/got that of the 3 dead evil gods. (Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal)
    Later I found out that Kelemvor became god of death but when did he become that?
     
  14. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    [​IMG] In the sequels to the original Avatar Trilogy; which is now all one series. See http://www.sorcerers.net/Books/index_fr2.php

    And considering this thread has expanded to cover way more than just El and Irenicus, I'm moving it to the D&D forum.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  15. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Elminster is a munchkin character. We all know what rogue(2) is taken for :p :shake:

    BTW, whose cleric is he? He couldn't have been of the pre-Midnight Mystra, as he's CG...
     
  16. Thunder Gems: 7/31
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    Helm was not the only God not banished. None of the elemental Gods were seen during the times of troubles, so it could be assumed that they weren't cast out.
     
  17. Errol Gems: 23/31
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    I guess that the elemental gods are considered gods of their own planes, Kossuth for the Elemental Plane of Fire and so on. Therefore, they are not part of the standard Faerunian Pantheon.
    At least that's the way I figure it.

    @Chevalier, Elminster was indeed a Cleric of Mystra for some time. The 'new' Mystra is Neutral Good, so Elminster is applicable for her. In Mystra's profile in the FRCS it says:

    "Alignment: Neutral Good (you can use either NG or LN when picking Mystra as a patron)."
    Later on it also says
    "Mystra honors the commitments that some members of her clergy made to the previous goddess of magic (who was lawful neutral). They have not been forced to leave the clergy due to alignment differences."

    We can only assume that since Mystra foresaw her death, while she brought Elminster up to be a Chosen of Mystra so that he could hold her essence during the Time of Troubles, she knew that her next 'host' would be of similar alignment.
     
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