Which book are you reading currently? #5

Remove all ads!

Is that from the Black Magician series?

 

Yeah. If you've read those try Jennifer Fallon, Medalon is the first

 

Alright cheers mate

 

@HB

which Justice League story arc?

 

Enagonios, not sure what a "story arc" is. This one is about some monster (who's name escapes me) that is more powerful than all the Justice League heroes and is therefore a threat to the world (but I have a sneaking suspicion that this is not a massive deviation from many of their stories......). The Atom came out of retirement to save the day.

 

So I'm reading Deadhouse Gates which I'm sure most of you know is by Stephen Erikson, it's a good read but imho it could have been so much better.

1. Character Development is minimal at best take Felisin, she starts off as the daughter of a Noble House, she's sent to the mines of Otataral, a seemingly long-term death sentence. The next time we meet her she's become a slut (for want of a better term) who believes that her pimp (Beneth) is helping her keep an old handless priest and a thug alive. In reality he's not doing much other than keeping her hooked on drugs and him while passing her round the boys. When Baudin kills Beneth who she is fixated on she turns her self-loathing onto Baudin. I would have liked to have to seen more of these transitions, was there a part of her that knew what was happening but couldn't stop the slide into delusional entrapment. There are parts of the other characters I'd like to see, know more of as well, Kalam becoming a Claw, Baudin as a Talon, Hebdoric as a priest and the losing of his hands.

2. Explanantion of things, for instance the Warrens, the Ascended, The Gods, Sorcery, Otataral and its effects on Sorcerers, The Jagh, the Wickans and the other races, Istaral Pust, the Red Blades to name just a few.

Two characters that I have accepted may be resolved or not are Mappo and Icarium, very interesting.

Sometimes his chapters are too much action not enough contemplation, but at the end of the day they are still a good read, not the best in my opinion, but good.

 

DarkStrider - I agree with everything you said but I still love the books. Point 2 is half the fun. You learn much more about that stuff as the books go on. The basic idea is that the characters don't know much about that stuff (in the same way that we argue about who God is). By the time you get to Memories of Ice, the explanation for warrens become a lot clearer, although many more mysteries are raised as well. In summary, most of that stuff is SUPPOSED to be mysterious. Erikson is an archaeologist and he looks at the world in a way that is dominated by guesses and hypotheses that are unravelled over time.

 

DarkStrider, nail and head mate.

That's probably what I find most irritating about trying to read Gardens of the Moon. For example, he talks about Warrens, with no real explanation of what they are or what they might look like, you have to try and gather that information yourself.

He does this a few times. Casually talks about locations or 'things' and expects you to know what he's talking about. He also gives you no background on groups like the bridgeburners. Then there's a bit that completely lost me, where the main guy seems to have been assassinated, but then what I am guessing are 'Gods' surround his body (in God knows where place) and seem to send him back to life.

I find the whole thing really irritating and difficult reading. It's hardly page-turning stuff if you're constantly reading back a few pages to see if you've missed something, because you're just completely lost and don't know who people are, where they are and why they are there.

 

HB I agree books shouldn't explain everything, there has to be some mystery, like I was observing in another thread; Tom Bombadil is the Enigma of Tolkien's work, who or what is or was he? But I don't constantly want to be going wtf every time I read something and Erikson has an annoying habit of doing that all the time.

In this book, the questions being raised are immense, who are the Di'vers, the Soletaken, the Jagh, the T'lan Imaas, the warrens, how do the gods interact with the world. i personally think he would have been better, writing Deadhouse gates as 2 or even 3 books.

 

Disagree. It's extensive, but done in a minimalist manner; that is, there're changes, many major, but he doesn't tell you about them, he shows you--typically subtly and without much fanfare.

Quite frankly, what Erikson is doing is assuming a certain degree of intelligence and careful reading from his readership, and refusing to hold hands.

And no, that was absolutely not intended as an insult/taunt in any way, shape, or form. It's unusual in fantasy writing, and not what I was accustomed to, so yes, it took some getting used to. Once I realized that I couldn't read Erikson in the same way that I could Jordan (casually, not paying much attention, still getting the full effect), well, I loved him.

Rather like the HBO series The Wire, now that I think about it. I suppose there's a reason I consider both that show and Erikson's writing to be the best there is in their respective fields.

Honestly, when I reread Gardens of the Moon prior to getting Deadhouse Gates I had no trouble whatsoever following what was going on. Some things were deliberately obscured, but, well, the characters knew no more (frequently less) than I did, so that wasn't a problem.

It's nice reading a book where people don't have conversations about common-knowledge stuff that are clearly intended as info dumps for the reader. That is the sort of thing that annoys me, not Erikson's approach.

where many/most epic fantasy series are massively decompressed (Wheel of Time is an excellent example), Erikson's series is extremely compressed. IMO, it gives the work greater impact.

Not that I mind decompressed stuff when it's done well (Tawny Man trilogy, for example).

 

The thing is, you find out enough to keep you going. Right, they're kind of powerful undead neanderthals who can vanish into dust. That's enough to hold the current story together, but the details of their history are so crucial to the arc of the whole series that it would be a complete giveaway to reveal it all at once.

Bingo! I had never thought about it that way before but that is exactly what I love about these books. And the more I read, the more engrossed I get.

 

I disagree, for example Felisin the first time we meet her she is an innocent pampered member of a noble house, she understands what her sister did, but not the full motivations. Next time we meet her she's hardened hooker with a drug habit, that is a major change for someone of her background, insights into how that happened, the internal arguments and rationalisations would have been interesting, and may well have kept me interested in her character, as it is I keep hoping she dies so that I don't have to read about her anymore.

But we'll agree to differ, I think they could have been better with a little more decompression, as it stands I'm not really interested in the characters except for Mappo and Icarium they have an interesting and mysterious dynamic. The rest are just pinpricks in the action.

 

I finished Fool's Errand today and started on Golden Fool. All in all it has been pretty good but I have seen nothing to suggest that the cabin scenes couldn't have been cut down considerably.

 

got that right HB

anyway, put Anubis Gates on hold and am starting my new paperback edition of Thud! by Pratchett. Sweet!

 

Lion of Senet by Jennifer Fallon

Actually I pretty good example of why I like Erikson so much; this book is rather decompressed, and it really shouldn't be. There just isn't much happening in plot or character development (not nearly as bad as some of Jordan's work, mind). Seems like Fallon's going for a Hobb-esque feel, but can't pull it off.

It's not a bad book, mind; I'm enjoying it. It's just not a good book. Whenever I engage my brain, the book annoys me (Ex: character thinking to herself, and I quote, "I will make you eat those words. One day you will call me 'my lady'. One day, you will bow before me. One day...").

Ah well, mindless fun can be good in moderation.

 

Just started this one today.

@AMaster
Stross' "Accelerando" is rather good--have you picked that one up?

 

The Faith Healers by James Randi. It has much ammunition for a debate I'm having with a friend...

 

I don't get how JSBB can start and finish a book within 2 days . Do you skip half the chapters or something?

 

Yeah, I know what you mean - he must have some sort of superhero speed reading ability like Superman.