What would you like to see more of or change on SP/BoM?

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This 'good old days' refrain seems to be pretty popular, which is making me curious about a few things. So if I may ask ...

What and when exactly were the 'good old days' at SP?

The what - extremely heavy traffic on the BoM, multiple forums active simultaneously, etc.? How many vistors were there per day, and how many posts per day, etc.? How are the numbers different now, specifically, if you care to share? What subjects/forums were popular?

The when (should be self-explanatory) - was this fabled time in the early 2000s or thereabouts, or when exactly? When did it start to decline? Has the change been gradual over time or sharp, etc.?

Another thing that may be useful to ask is what you're (Tal) after specifically. Is there really something wrong here that may require some kind of major overhaul, or are you just trying to tweak things? Do you want big numbers as far as traffic goes (which would seem to make sense from a fiscal standpoint, though I don't really have a clue as to the specifics), or do you just want to serve the RPG gaming community? Or something in between?

Off the top of my head, I would say that if you're after numbers, change the site to a DA-oriented thing and try to offer something DA-related that others don't. (Easier said than done, I'm sure.) If you want to serve the RPG gaming community, just keep doing what you're doing. That's an "it is what it is" scenario, I believe - interest in BG-era games is not going to be affected by anything other than the relative interest in BG-era games, so if that's waning somehow naturally, I doubt anything can be done about it. Somehow though I suspect that people will be playing BG for a long time to come, so the "doom" prognosticators may be a bit premature.

Lastly, I think that internet message boards sort of evolve naturally. If the BoM is turning partly into a socio-political discussion (read: vitriol ) site, well, that means that that's what the members want to talk about, right? Why stand in the way of evolution? Whatever is working, cater to it, and whatever isn't working, let it go. I think you'd be better off with that strategy than with some of the reinvention schemes we've seen suggested here.

I also think that the members of any site themselves change over time. It doesn't seem uncommon, for example, that once vocal members become a bit 'too cool' for the topics they once posted about at length, and turn to a reticent, self-conscious ("I am aloof and edgy - yes, even badass" ) attitude of one sentence or one word posts that promote the same feeling among others. That's ultimately very self-serving and not good for the community (not to mention sad and embarassing) but it happens.

Lots of questions are irritating I know, but I'm really just asking them for the sake of positing ideas that could be looked at, not demanding answers.

 

Back in the day, a good 3 or 4 years or more ago maybe, I would visit BoM and there would be pages upon pages upon pages of content in the New Posts button. Even if you only gave it a few hours hours between visits. More people frequented the site, and there was a wider range of people. There were loads of different characters, a lot of them a bit firey and controversial, and a few of them clashed. I remember the mods were very busy people issuing warnings and editting posts - now they don't seem to need to get involved.

More controversy and arguing etc might sound a bit 'not fun', but it was. They are the kind of things that make internet forums interesting. Forums need characters who liven things up and get in the bad books sometimes, to add a bit of spice. And obviously you get more chance of getting people like that when the member base is bigger!

 

Well, yeah, but the Alleys certainly seem a lot more alive than anywhere else - not just in terms of volume of new posts but also in 'freshness'. The Sensorium is relatively active as well but most of the first page isn't real discussion.

Well, that, yeah - but I also suspect that LKD's attitude is shared by the most active members. They're here to talk with the current people here about the issues of the day. The number of people who come here to talk about games is pretty low.

Ah, didn't realise it was that recent a split. And I know it's not terribly productive either, but it makes things look less cluttered and dead than a whole heap of empty forums. I just don't think there are enough Diablo or Final Fantasy fans here who have anything to discuss about the series - especially the old games where everything that needs to be said has been said elsewhere.


Gaear:
When 'the good old days' were probably depends on when you signed up, but I'm remembering a time when there was a lot of activity and a lot of varied discussion (and yes, I'm full of nostalgia).

My memories are a bit messy - but back in 2002 I remember #sorcerers containing me, Arabwel, and Sorvo (at my timezone, which isn't exactly the busiest). Naturally there wasn't much conversation. After a year or two there was a much larger pool of people - and I think that kept growing until around ... 2006? When it peaked it was busy enough that having a single coherent discussion was hard.
Now when I go into #sorcerers it's just me and Mystra. Not that I try it very often, but it's a fairly clear decline.


Tal:
Do you have any kind of 'vision' for this site? I know you did way back when it was founded for it being a general collection of all information on D&D CRPGs, but it's fulfilled its purpose there. Maybe you need a new goal for it?

The idea of SP radically changing goals is kind of weird because it's such a conservative feeling place, but there's no way you can get activity with the old goals or slight modifications of them. The world's changed, and all that - and just diversifying the content that you cover doesn't really help much. The niche is filled. (edit: except, maybe, if you had a whole heap of good original content? I may be overstating everything )

I don't really have much in the way of ideas though, unless you were looking to spearhead an IE-style revival. That's something I could get behind. But ... eh, I guess it would be pretty risky/likely to fail unless you could get a lot of good content to back it up seeing that you don't really have a community full of developers sitting here already.


Does the main site get much content these days? Does that content get much traffic? I came here first to get walkthroughs and stuff for BG1 and from there wandered over to the forums - but if there's no new content or no one really cares about it, that might be half the problem.

Planewalker.com was recently having this discussion - they have similar problems where they're a community about something that no new things are being released for. One of their changes was how content is submitted, with new articles being written by people on the forums and then 'promoted' to the content section of the website.

There's a pretty big divorce on SP between the content and the forum - maybe you should try and close the gap? Original content is kind of important whatever you decide to do, or there's no reason to come here over the alternatives. But then, seeing that you're not running your own software it might be hard to make any really useful changes (you don't have access to the source code, I presume?).

... I need to stop writing this post. Too much babble. Hope you can pick an interesting thought out from it.

 

As a wet behind the ears newbie with not much time on my hands i'm damn impressed with the breadth and scope of the site and how you manage to maintain it all, as for changes erm maybe you could post some reviews of mods, games or books by the more literary regulars up on the front page, make editorials on subjects you hold dear or seek web interviews with a few willing rpg veterans.
Then again that all sounds like a damn lot of work and like everybody you've probably got limited time and resources, still respect for the site as it is.

 

I have to admit - when I think of "main site", I think of the BoM main page. I almost never go to sorcerers.net itself.

 

Really? SP is pretty much my sole news source on CRPGs, I've been visiting the main site since around 2001-2002.

As you can see, I never worked up the courage to join the forums until much later .

 

Yeah - I don't use SP for news. I'm not sure if it's still the case, but the number of games covered by it was never all that broad and the front page design is kind of ... bad.

Hmm - taking a look at the main site (something I haven't really done in a while) - the 'Fantasy Books' and 'SF/Fantasy DVDs' section stick out. Was this going to be an attempt to expand the range of content covered by the site, or was it always just intended as a jumping point to Amazon?

Maybe you should consider a serious attempt at broadening the site's scope to cover all fantasy things? I don't have any clear vision of what that might look like - but obviously you'd need a big redesign and crowdsourcing for content.

The section 'fantasy worlds' feels like it has potential to be interesting. Some kind of database detailing fantasy settings could be a valuable resource - especially for PnP gamers. Quick googling doesn't reveal anything similar.

Is a big site redesign/relaunch outside the scope of what you're looking for?

 

That's a problem right there. People aren't getting pulled in because it's the same as so many other places. There's nothing to make it stand out!

 

Well, I have some specific dislikes about the front page design. When it comes to it being a news site - there's a lot of clutter to scroll through before getting to the actual news. In general, I think there's a lot of clutter and the content column feels too squashed. The 'Sections', 'Subsections', and 'Features' navigation columns are kind of ambiguous - I'm not sure where I should be looking to navigate to where I want to be. The background texture makes the text kind of hard to read as well. It's doable, but it's not as pleasant as reading on a simple background.

Not saying that you should just rip it or anything, but compare to the Codex - the first thing you see is the latest news. All screen real estate is used. The most important navigation links are where you'd expect them and even when there's convenience links to deeper parts of the site, they don't seem as redundant/contradictory as the ones on SP's homepage. Just in general it feels uncluttered and more spacious.

For a quick fix, just get rid of or move everything that comes in front of the first news item - especially rubbish like the Facebook plugin and the ad (I realise you need ads, but no one's going to look at your ad if they don't get some content quickly)

Mmm - but there's not exactly a good process for getting more. There's no Web 2.0 going - it's more like if you were submitting an article to a paper or something rather than to a website.

I'm not sure how much you can offer here that other people don't, but if you're going to play in the space at all some kind of automated review or comment submission process is a minimum - though I guess that would be too little too late currently.

Anyway, I'm not convinced you should go there either - but if there's something that you can do that Amazon or, say, Goodreads doesn't already do it might be worth a shot. Otherwise though, those pages at the moment just kind of look daggy.

Well, possibly - though specific is probably more useful. I'm not sure the best way specifically to do it, but given a good setup and people who care, there's no reason you couldn't get in-depth descriptions.
Obviously this is more useful for settings that don't already have huge wikis and fansites already, but I think it's definitely an interesting idea.


As for manpower ... well, I know I'm one of those people who gets excited about a new project and then quietly disappears, so I won't stick my hand up. I wouldn't mind pitching a bit in if you find someone more serious than me though (and if you're doing something interesting with it, of course). It's probably premature to think about that until you have a vision for what you want it to be about and what kind of stuff you'd want in there though.

 

I don't know how to liven up this site much more. I am constantly finding new things. My only problem is how to find what I want to read. Could a blog list be easer to see all that is there and don't get me started on photo album listings! These are the personal sections and provide a connection to the members. New people on the site might be interested in this content and some of us cannot find things twice in a row. (like me) I realize almose everyone here finds -look up- and navigation simple after being here awhile, try hitting a new site and getting lost. Is there a way to make our content more visable? How about making RBP more of an open conversion area? I admit I have no idea how to do these things, my knowing how to set up anything is long past and dated.
I have found two sites worth going on and this is one. The other is now dead. The site owner had not signed on in more than two weeks the last time I was there. This is in spite of great content and layout.
I have tried two new games we do not cover, what are touted as exclent sites suck compaired to Sorcerers net with no real info and I have found 1, one early partial walk through for ONE of the games. I have been hearing a lot about expanded content covering other games and seen resistance from Tal in changing this. (sorry Tal, personal opinion only) There are games with really bad home sites (real bad) and no content being in the main just sales sites. We need newer games to cover. Look at the bump in traffic when something new is released. Motb or SoZ for an example. Just becaues it's not Atari or Bioware does not mean it's not fun to play. Before I get flamed for not being fair I know we have coverage of other games but how about solid suggestions for other games that might fit the DND discriptions? Ones we do not cover? Does anyone play the Sacred games? Or anything else?

This is the best fan site out there I have ever found. Must be a way to get it more active. I don't show up much myself and plan to correct that, my way of helping I guess.

OK, kicking my own backside! Went to Blogs and the listings are exactly what I wanted. Sorry Tal, been a long time since I was there. My error! :-/

 

I'd just like to say, I like everything the way it is right now. Even though you guys are intent on making a vast amount of changes, I really love everything that sorcerers has provided us with thus far