Whaling?

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Also I read elsewhere (Nationstates forum) that Japanese hunting of whales only became 'traditional' after WW2. Apparently it used to be considered as something that only badly off people ate or so such. The tradition argument just doesn't hold up if this is true...

 

Sigh, well, I suppose one Norwegian has to pick it up...

Firstly I have to say that unless you're against all forms of hunting and fishing, I have no sympathy when it comes to an objection to whaling. There is no practical difference.

Whales are impressive animals in the wild, of course they are, so are deer, moose, bear etc, etc, etc. I hear little complaint about the hunting of these animals.

To answer some of the questions above:

1) Whale hunting IS traditional in Norway, particularly in the North. As is seal hunting.

2) Whale hunting IS important to the population of Northern Norway as a substitute for fishing in the low season (for fishing) of Summer.

3) In a country as stretched out as Norway, with few natural resources other than the sea, it is an important part of enabling small communities to make a day to day living, particularly in the far north.

4) The whales taken are minke whales, which are not under any threat of extinction, and the levels are carefully monitored to be within sustainable levels according to the best information and research available.

5) Modern hunting methods are employed and it is estimated that most (more than 70% of the whales) die instantly, and only about 10% require a second shot (rifle) to be killed. Which over all compares pretty well with any other form of hunting I believe. I also think that each vessel is required to have a vet on board to ensure that the whales are killed as humanly as possible, though this was the case, I'm not certain if it is still so.

6) The whales are taken for meat in the main, though other parts are also used. Yes, we do eat whale meat in Norway. It's actually quite good, but then I suppose I grew up with it. The French eat horses, what can I say?

7) There is no question as to the legality or otherwise of Norwegian whaling. It is legal, though not popular.

8) I cannot comment on Japanese whaling as I know nothing about it of substance, and little about their traditions in this area. However, I observe that they are an island nation, and as such are likely to have a substantial and traditional fisheries industry, possibly including whaling.

 

OK then, if whaling is traditional, then why not go out and hunt them 'traditionally'? If whaling as restricted to a bunch of fur clad hunters in a couple of kayaks with a sharpened spear, then I have no problem.

Whaling is in a whole different league to fishing or farming because whales are so much bigger and less fertile than most other animals. We know from what happened when whaling was uncontrolled that it has a devastating effect on each species.

And Cesard, I agree with your comments on battery hens etc, but that does not make whaling right. I'll happily contribute to an anti-battery hen thread as well if there was one.

 

Funnily enough, kayaks and sharpened spears have never been traditional in Scandinavia, Harbourboy.

We've been using boats for a few thousand years up here, how do you get around at sea down under?

Whaling is not a 'whole league' different to other hunting. If you over hunt anything it will die out. It's not news, the species they hunt is not threatened, thus what is the problem? We are not talking about taking a lot here, but it does make a huge difference to some very rural areas of Norway where the moratorium had a devestating effect.

Of course I don't suppose small fishing communities at exactly the opposite end of the world matters much in NZ or Australia, but ho hum.

 

Viking, the problem is that you can't just let the small fishing communities go whaling without letting everybody else do it as well.

And I oppose the hunting of any animal that would cause it to become threatened, not just whales.

Whaling also used to be a big part of NZ history as that was what the first European settlers came here for. Plenty of people in NZ lost their livelihoods when whaling was stopped so don't try and make out we had no skin in the game.

We managed to move with the times and find other ways of making money from whales, like running whale watching tours.

 

It seems to me that countries with tons of other options regarding resources have a very easy time denying the use of other resources to less fortunate countries. Japan may be wealthy now, but they have a GIGANTIC population and it doesn't take a genius to see that they need to exploit every possible avenue when it comes to feeding that population.

In N.A., hunting is not nearly as common as it used to be. Instead, we ranch our livestock, often in cruel conditions. Does that make hunting "wrong" or immoral? Of course not -- people do what they have to in order to eat!

Intelligent harvesters of animal resources never overhunt their supply, and call the Japanese what you will, they're not stupid.

Would we get so wound up if it were eels or something reptilian? Nope! Even if the animal in question fills a much more important role in the ecosystem in question, it's tough to anthropomorphize something weird looking. Mammalian creatures are portrayed as cute and cuddly and "why would ANYONE want to kill these sweet little things" and such, but the fact remains that even items other than food often require humans to kill other living creatures.

I say let the Japanese use what resources they can, and the same goes for anyone else who wants to use resources. If proper safeguards are in place to prevent the extinction of a species, there shouldn't be a problem.

 

There's a problem of logic there. Individually, each Japanese (or other nationality) person is not stupid. But when each of those individuals acts as part of a large group, the results can be stupid.

It's like saying that intelligent people don't have senseless wars, or don't pollute the environment, or don't use up all the fossil fuels by driving excessively large cars.

If the restrictions on whaling are lifted, the whales would be overhunted because all the various countries would want to have their share and they would never co-operate well enough to 'intelligently harvest'.

And, once again, this is nothing to do with anthropomorphising a whale. It's to do with senselessly sending yet more animals to extinction - something "intelligent" humans have done far too often already.

 

So, enforcing laws and regulations regarding the hunt is a good thing, yes? I mean, a complete ban isn't the only answer, right? The whole concept of harvesting an animal may be repugnant to those of us living in comfort, but other places in the world have other economic and food - supply realities. I don't think it's a matter of "making money" off the whales -- if it were that simple, Japan would be running a massive whale watching program as we speak.

Put in other terms, I am opposed to extinction of any animal, but I don't believe that resuming regulated whaling will doom the whale population.

 

I'd love for every species of mosquito to be extinct.
/me grumbles about damn insects getting in the way of a good night's sleep.

 

Move somewhere with no mosquitos.

 

I wonder if it might make more sense to allow hunting of certain kinds of whales in certain waters -- I expect that there are plenty of certain species in certain places, so hunting them sustainably would be possible.