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Warriors at the Gate: #16 How much?

Discussion in 'BoM Blogs' started by 8people, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    Thoughs on BG2 NPCs

    How much limelight should an NPC have? The original ones have small fragments where they shine, otherwise nothing much.

    Should an NPC be able to affect the overall story? None of the original ones are able to affect the overall outcome.

    Aside from class issues, none of the original NPCs are bizarre gimicks. There is a Drow and a Tiefling, true, but most of the playing up of that is done by OTHERS towards them, not "OMFG LOOK AT ME I'M SHINY"

    Why do so many modded NPCs seem like they're the protagonists from BG fanfic where they feature as Gorions Ward?

    I've been looking through so many at the moment and balance and integration just don't seem to be priorities on many of them.

    Do people actually want 'new protagonists' to lead through the story?

    I give my NPCs in production more dialogue and banter than the average NPC, mainly directed towards the player and in minimal environmental interaction. Something that the original NPCs could have done and could easily be added to them by template, much like flirts or PS:T style dialogue options.

    But is it enough? How much do players really want?
     
  2. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    You make NPC mods, huh? If you ask me, players want more content, not another character to take up one of the 5 npc slots. NPC mods also take up lots of memory in override, mainly due to sound files. This causes more slowdown than they're worth, IMHO. I'm almost finished with my megamod runthrough (Saradush, so I'll be done in a couple weeks;)), and I took along the 5 bioware npcs that are recurring from BG1 and BG2: Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Imoen and Edwin.
    But now that I've learnt cheatcodes, I'll compose a second dream-team by simply moving to BG2 maps and bringing them to BG1:p
    I'm going for multiclass (single/dual class characters stop progressing after reaching the cap, so only my protagonist and jaheira level up now) and lots of thieves (use any item:D): F/T/M Protagonist, Jaheira, Coran, Tiax, Jan, and Aerie or Quayle (depends on whether I can cheat Aerie in in BG1 easily).
    I agree that many npc mods are made as if they were protagonists. Modmakers make the assumption that players are interested in their npcs more than the bioware ones. A recent poll showed that few people even play a modded game, and even fewer try out npc mods. If you want my advice, make a nice unconditional (no npc required) quest mod; more people will enjoy it! I played The Darkest Day despite the online advice saying Drizzt is required: I just wrote down all the map codes, and cheated myself there, until I had done all maps. I have a good idea how the story was supposed to have gone. Seriously, the TDD Drizzt had 5 slots in dual-wielding, which wasn't possible, meaning he couldn't dual-wield.
    Similarly, Tortured Souls's Kackiko had grand mastery in Scimitars, but her wakizashis are recoded as short sword. And what was the big idea, linking her to Yoshimo, did people like the linked NPCs of BG1? :mad:Mod NPCs always have annoyances like this.
     
  3. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    Interesting that you take that tack. Reading through forums and mod sites over the years there seems to be plenty of interest in NPC/related mods. Even if said mods are only taken for one run through.

    I myself voted on that poll that I didn't play through with modded NPCs, simply as I haven't had time to play the game in a long time. As for memory, conversion and larger quest mods can easily take up as much if not more space. Include space taken up by custom portraits or soundfiles in some setups it can become a non-issue.

    On testing out various NPC mods I have experienced absolutely no slow down in the game or on my system, whichever you may be implying.

    I am not making the assumption that any NPCs I make and release will be more popular than bioware ones. I simply am working on mod concepts that I enjoy working on and coding.

    I'm not asking anyone on here to play any mods I make, or indeed anywhere. If I was modding on demand, then yes I probably would end up making quest mods and tweaks, as it is the only request mod I've been working on has been Mazzy. Which I have been working on for so long now I doubt anyone else expects it to get finished.

    It's a modders responsibility to look after their own mod to make it flow and ensure it is correct and is corrected and updated in the instance of bugs. As you've already stated you cheated yourself around a mod already, despite the intentions of a storyline and what may have been required to complete it swiftly. Why not have just altered Drizzt and taken him like you were meant to?

    Presuming all NPC mods have annoyances isn't exactly fair: Either to the creators of the NPC mods you haven't played or in your attempts to dishearten someone working on NPC mods. Your comment, from my view, seems to be aimed at dissuading me to work on my mods, thus falling in the latter.

    Yes, people liked the linked NPCs in BG1.
     
  4. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    :(OK then. I thought you might appreciate my input, too bad. The original bioware NPCs have become just as epic as the game itself, so I doubt that people will even give NPC mods a chance. A mod that enriches Mazzy sounds interesting, but Mazzy isn't one of my preferred choices of NPC (she was the only NPC that got killed besides Khalid and Dynaheir. I refused to apologise in ToB, so she went hostile:lol:). The Valygar and Nalia romances are problematic, and I installed Edwin romance, but it required me to alter songlist.2da I think. Imoen romance was fun, but it has stopped progressing. :pI just prefer unconditional content, because I like an all-inclusive game, and also like to stick with the party I choose.
     
  5. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    My apologies, I've been rather touchy lately. I've been getting rather a lot of "why bother?" style conversations from several people lately over several of my hobbies, along with miscellaneous *****ing, I'm afraid I've become rather defensive.

    I don't think I've ever killed Mazzy outright then summoned her :D will have to try that.

    Valygar one I only got halfway through on my old comp before it blew up, by then the DL was gone so I never got to evaluate it properly. Both Nalia romances jarred with me a fair bit, one for bugs and looped content, the other for rather zig-zaggy dialogue and links between dialogues.

    Didn't have to alter anything for Edwin, though it was a rather amusing one overall. Brought out the more comic side of the character than the 'ebil' which would be an aspect drawn out in extended friendship and relationships mostly anyhow. The BG1 link with him was rather... unusual though.

    Imoen I never played. I think I downloaded it on my old comp to read, but again, compy went boom.

    There is some content I am adding to NPCs that is 'unconditional' (in so far that having it installed is a condition :p) some NPC quests do not require the NPC in the party, though are enriched with their involvement or the PC is required to discuss the situation with them at some point.

    The quests are relatively small and personal to the NPC. But then again when has that stopped a Bhaalspawn interfering :shake:

    (Interfering is also a devilishly awkward word to spell and look correct afterwards.)
     
  6. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    Oh that's OK, I was being rather critical after all.:( I was hoping that the no-gender-requirement tweak would apply to the Edwin romance as well, but my male protagonist hasn't succeeded in having a homoerotic relationship with Edwin:lol: Apparently the mod does alter the ending with the Viconia romance, so I'm waiting to see what happens. The Imoen romance adds content even if you're not courting her, which is nice.:)
    Perhaps you could make all NPC mod content unconditional, by making it possible to talk with her regardless of whether she's in the party.
     
  7. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I can tell you from experience here that NPC mods "sell" the best, by far. It seems that the majority of people who do play mods install as many NPC mods as they can at once and then pick and choose which ones they'll take or mix with the rest. Of course, it could also be that NPC mod players are just the most vocal group, but I expect that anyone who is modding prefers to have 10 players where 5 give at least some sort of feedback than 100 players and feedback from only 1 player. People take NPC mods much more personally (both their makers and their players).
     
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