1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Warrior abilities, can't decide

Discussion in 'Dragon Age: Inquisition' started by chevalier, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,790
    Media:
    9
    Likes Received:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, I know there's a cheap respec potion at the smithy, and the first one for 1 gold.

    But there's a bit more to it than just the possibility impossibility of going back. Perhaps training myself to do it? Awkwardness? I don't know.

    I've also just realized that my Herald is probably finding 2H weapons on everybody precisely because that's what he's wielding, though I can't be sure.

    The Sword & Board tree is quite respectable and good no-nonsense stuff:

    • disabled flanking
    • reduced staggering
    • 50% ranged dmg reduction
    • 20% all dmg reduction
    • stamina regen
    • +12 CON
    • Jedi Guardian jump (a.k.a. Lunch & Smash) / Mass Effect charge for possibly endless series when mopping up folks that aren't targeting you ATM, big boom on impact etc., basically cavalry
    • shield bash for 'nother big boom

    What's not to like? Very well made. If you just ignore Payback Strike.

    But 2H?

    • block & counter mechanic
    • Mighty Blow for big boom & stun
    • Pummel Strike for alt big boom & stun (useful because of cooldowns)
    • smashing stuff (guard, armor etc.)
    • stamina regen upon landing crits or multitarget strikes
    • +12 STR

    but:
    cheesy magic whirlwind crap (it's supposed to somehow draw enemies into a 'vortex' with one of the upgrades)
    cheesy magic crap ultimate ability (you slap the ground to send a targeted moving earthquake and erupt flames from the hole, lol yeah right kk that's totally not magic)


    I could do what my Hawke did and ignore style abilities. There's still Battlemaster, Vanguard and spec.

    But, here's the problem, BM first:

    • STR + 12 = good
    • stamina regen = good
    • ally AoE buff + enemy AoE debuff = good
    • still, this is rogue crap: Grappling Chain (what the?), Cripping Blows, Hamstring, Coup de Grace, Roll(!!!!1)… seriously?
    • progression for BM is 'controversial' — you have to get abilities named Crippling Blows and Coup de Grace to get Horn of Valor, seriously what the?
    • no ultimate ability

    And Vanguard:

    • STR +6, CON +6 is interesting
    • guard goodness is good
    • crowd control is good
    • stamina-saving charge is good
    • +20% dmg vs taunted enemies isn't bad
    • magic damage payback is useful but feels lame without direct blocks, counters etc.…? haven't seen the animation, if any, though
    • non-sustained Bodyguard is quite silly — I get the point about activating it on purpose, but limited duration, eh? still good for mage saving, I guess, but meh

    I guess I could hold out for spec and just max it out the moment I get it. Both Champion (a.k.a. Supreme Mastertank) and Templar (a.k.a. self-healing anti-mage & aura provider) are good — in fact so good I'll gest stuck again.

    I'm also meh about Inquisitor abilities. But I guess Lord 'my parents are on first name basis with most of the Chantry in Ostwick' Trevelyan could plausibly accumulate all his level energy and discharge it into full Inquisitor + Templar midgame with exactly 0 in the Core Four.

    My remaining rant/whine will be about redundant abilities:

    Cry for Guard (War Cry), Horn of Valor, Rally (Templar) etc. — too much overlap
    Red Bull Charge & Lunge for Lunch — redundant (though alt charge might be good to have)
    targeted special attacks vs AoE enemy debuffs can overlap and get redundant too

    It's not just wasted points when distributing, it's also time out of combat and short-term buffs running out when you stand and activate all this stuff.

    I guess you just have to choose and you have many ways of making your character a viable warrior rather than just another cloned storm trooper. More a stylistic thing than anything else. But I'm not really used to the way DAI handles things.
     
  2. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,090
    Media:
    10
    Likes Received:
    102
    Gender:
    Male
    Payback Strike is actually pretty good, its a spammable Aoe nuke that you can use even while disabled (and there are a LOT of enemies that use disables in the game, from knockbacks to knockdowns to stuns) and it does great damage. It even stuns if you've just taken damage.

    For a bit more insight into what might go well for your character I would suggest trying Inquisition multiplayer and playing Korbin (the dwarf fighter). He gets a bit of everything, and if you get lucky you might be able to unlock the other warrior characters and test those too. Leveling is easy in multiplayer and you get an idea of what certain skills do and what abilities are best paired with them.

    In Inquisition, two-handed weapons have a much more significant damage advantage over one-handed weapons (combined with AoE normal attacks for many two-handed weapons). Add to that the fact that all warriors generate block on their attacks, plus the new mage barrier system and you can make do without sword and boards defensive skills for several group combinations.
    Note that in Inquisition the meta heavily favors support skills - there's a hard limit on how many potions you can use per mission (and at higher difficulties you'll rarely get the opportunity to restock) and you have limited means of healing yourself/raising allies during combat. There are no heal/regenerate spells (only an ultimate). Creating a build that does massive amounts of damage is trivial - trying to balance that with good survivability (whether by itself or through group synergy) is the tricky part.
    Did you just start Inquisition? How go the spirit talks with Solas? Heh.

    Generally speaking, for an offensive build what you want is a combination of skill cooldown reduction and increased class resource (stamina/mana/etc) generation. This is reflected heavily in the Two-handed Weapon skill tree.
    Using "normal" attacks (or your preferred spammable attack) is also ideal since this allows you to proc many passive skill/item effects better. Passives are key, while active skills (with the exception of nukes) are usually situational. Whirlwind, for example, is the ideal spammable AoE attack for people who like to use two-handed weapons that do not have an innate AoE attack per hit. It's rather meh for anyone else.
    Pick your actives carefully.
     
  3. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,790
    Media:
    9
    Likes Received:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    A while ago I decided, for the time being, to invest in the 2H tree because of how easy respec is. Suspecting that I would have to invest in late-game unlockables also made it easier. And then I realized that a lot of 2H weapons come with significant stat bonuses and have two upgrades. And then I got the schematics for a really powerful 2H sword — packing a bigger punch than the items in my inventory that I'm several levels too low for. Right now my 'Strong Greatblade' does 175 DPS / 155 AOE and provides +13 STR +7 CON +5 CUN. I made Cassandra a nice Kirkwall mace that does 133 DPS, so she isn't far behind on damage, and +8% armour penetration & 12% crit chance isn't bad at all, she might even be ahead because of crits. But her 1H weapon granting +2 stats vs the combined +25 I'm getting is quite massive. Besides, STR increases from the tree probably make some difference too. I don't really seem to miss the CON or stuff like immunity to flanking because a single flanker is going to get Pummel Strike + Mighty Blow, and multiflank is what Whirlwind is for. And archers and mages I can Red Bull Charge. Just skipping the silly ulti so far. Works good for me.
     
  4. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,790
    Media:
    9
    Likes Received:
    49
    Gender:
    Male
    Necro because there are already three separate threads from me right on top.

    Several levels later, my Inquisitor is pretty much a committed two-hander, though this can change depending on the quality of 1H weapons and shields to be found or crafted in the game.

    I don't desperately need a specialization for him, but it could be useful storywise. There's supposed to be some reaction from NPCs in dialogue etc. I know it's not going to be Reaver, but I can't decide between Champion and Templar.

    Background: Human (Trevelyan), 'faithful' (Andrastian responses), saved the Redcliffe mages but otherwise identified with Templars more. As Herald he probably would have gone Templar, especially since there aren't many of them left, he agreed with Vivienne that there was need to train more, etc. Also to balance out the Inquisition's perceived pro-mage slant.

    However, as Inquisitor he has to realize he de facto is a champion of the people, and there is after all a chance he might be a chosen champion of Andraste. Champion abilities don't reflect this, but the lore, dialogue, codex etc. all do. His survival at Haven and after fits the Champion's unkillable theme.

    In terms of abilities, Templar abilities blend better with the unique Inquisitor abilities, including the self-detonating combo of Mark of the Rift + Spell Purge. It makes sense to pour lyrium in the Inquisitor — it has already been done, in a way, when closing the Breach in Haven, as either Templars or mages were basically lending their energy to the Herald, not targetting the Breach with their own abilities. Also the main antagonist is already known, and already known to be a powerful mage, with a lot of demons involved. Inquisitors, like the name suggests, are primarily meant to investigate and solve problems, not really to remake the world order. Then again, it depends on how narrowly or broadly you see the Inquisitor's mission.

    What else?

    Initially, he agreed with Vivienne and Cassandra that Circles had to be restored and Templars were necessary. He also didn't believe the woman who led him out of the Fade to have been Andraste, because Andraste has no business being dressed like a Chantry cleric (which she never was). Similarly he always claimed he didn't know if he was chosen or not, never referred to himself as the Herald, was uneasy when others did etc. So this is as conservative as it gets. He saved the Redcliffe mages because action was immediately needed to stop hundreds of them, including children, elderly mages, Tranquil etc. from being shipped over to Tevinter, conscripted, killed for experiments (the Tranquil) etc. Otherwise he identified with Templars more. He even had some Templars trained by Cullen at Vivienne's suggestion.

    However, the way his Inquisition has attempted to give the mages a chance to grow, learn and prove (perhaps redeem) themselves has led to some further thought. As anyone with some education, let alone the access to information that he now enjoys, he knows that Templars are older than the Circle but that there is also a possibility that they were developed over centuries into primarily a class of lyrium-hooked guards for Circle Mages rather than defenders of the people from apostates, demons etc. running loose across Thedas. He wonders if it isn't perhaps his mission to realize and show the world that making Templars isn't a solution.

    The whole chain of events leading to his inauguration as Inquisitor, ruling from Skyhold etc. has also made him realize that he might in fact have been chosen by Andraste in some way, despite the Mark being elven and the events of the Conclave Tevinter in origin — it simply took near-impossible odds for him to survive and end up having 'stolen' the Mark from the Venatori. He also has to see himself in a broader light now, as someone whose job is to give people leadership, purpose, inspiration, hope, law and order etc., not just a rift closer and glorified demon/apostate hunter.

    On the other hand, even from the perspective of a hope-bringing contagious optimism, there is still a lot too much of annoying Orlesian-style levity surrounding the Champion specialization. Duelling people, actilvely fishing for and basking in popular adulation, drawing lines in the sand, talk about boars choked on apples having sweeter flesh, big parties etc. It does get on one's nerves. He may not be a Chantry type in the same sense that Leliana or Cassandra is (let alone a real Revered Mother), obviously not a Templar zealot like Lucius & co. or Meredith (Lambert from the novels), but he's not a silly Orlesian noble.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  5. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,090
    Media:
    10
    Likes Received:
    102
    Gender:
    Male
    /advisor from the shadows mode

    You know life likes to throw misdirection hexes at you, and so you do your best. I know you like to face these kinds of challenges head on, but occasionally you just have to be as the willow-sylvan and flex, as they say.
    After seeing just how close the mage Alexius came to breaking Thedas itself, did it not occur to you that perhaps the way things have ultimately played out may have been nothing short of providence?
    Perhaps you ARE meant to be a templar, just not the type of templar that helped bring about the current catastrophe, or the type of templar that now haunts the hinterland roads like a common bandit. Did not Lady Cassandra also point out that the templars were also at fault? Would the young lad Cole, a spirit of compassion - come now, he talks about himself openly to anyone not afraid to listen - have been so corrupted if the templar order was truly only carrying out its sworn duty?

    Maybe the mages were "delivered" to you so you may succeed where the old ways failed - you certainly have the resources, assets and the insight to do better. And even if you are NOT the chosen of Andraste or the Maker or whoever deity decided to step in after at least a ten times as much innocent blood has already been spilled, as Mother Giselle quietly pointed out it only really matters that you are now in a position to do something about it. And that, ultimately, you would willfully give up your position and even your templar powers once an ideal resolution is in place.
    One would argue that that was the whole point of having them.

    In the end what the Inquisition needs a leader-exemplar, sir. Not a mascot, if you don't mind me saying.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
Sorcerer's Place is an independent project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of time and money on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!