Violence in Video Games

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All very valid points on violence in video games. I think the best we can seriously hope for is that parents get a bit more educated on what certain games contain and on what their kids are playing. Naive sure, but anything else just seems to be unfeasible. Especially when you consider that similar games are available in video arcades, and some with hig-level violence only have a half-curtain around them to stop younger kids watching. One in particualr that's still doing the rounds of video arcades here in my area is House Of The Dead 2 wich has a curtain which barely obstructs the view of younger (read 'shorter') people.

A further note on the 'porn' aspect: I read a few months back that a PS2/X-Box game (the name of which I forget, but was something like XXX Skating) was going to be removed from the shelves here in Australia because you can create naked female characters. No word reached my ears on whether that actually happened or if it's still on the shelf in its original form.

 

House of the Dead II can hardly be considered a violence promoting video game. Sure you're shooting gory looking things but it's not mindless slaughter as seen in games like Postal, Manhunt and GTA.

 

It's not violence that's the problem, it's the attitude.

I agreed with chev as well, that it's not about censoring or banning, but informing- the thing is like has been pointed out, people don't want to be informed.

And let's say one pair of parents decide to try and teach their kids some values, thus they are 'mean' because they haven't let him play the games he likes, well, once he has been taught those values he probably won't find much more to enjoy in the game anymore but that's beside the point; he's just going to go to his friend's house who's parents are 'cool' because they go down to the liqour store for him and tell him how much better it is to lie to the insurance company, and hit people who look at you funny etc. etc.

You can't blame the parents solely- they are responcible for a great deal but the culture we are surrounded in almost goes counter-productive to everything some parents might try to teach.

As Abomination has aaid, it's not games or anything, it's worship of midless slaughter, games like postal and manhunt are promoting enjoying the thought of killing the store clerk for laughs. Now of course, kids aren't going to go out and try to kill someone but that's hardly the point, it doesn't matter if you never kill a man in your life, the fact that you think it is good to do so will do the damage to you, which is seen in the type of culture we live in. Every thought and attitude which we contain presents itself in all the aspects of our lives, it's not about stopping murders, it's about decadence.

Now, I'm not saying to ban anything, but if some parents don't care, then that is going to affect your kids as well- parents and kids alike will agree on this I think that you learn a lot from your friends especially at a young age.
The question you have to ask is why make games like that? I don't know, but if people really feel the need to play them who am I to say they shouldn't? But with kids it's different, and some parents are really irresponcible, and in the end, it is the kids that suffer. Your kids might go through a similar stage but the odds are that if they themselves are raised right, then whatever the friend they had in primary school ends up doing, they'll grow up ok, but that friend they had who had the 'cool' parents (who your kid now sees in an altogether different light), is not so lucky, this is what he is surrounded with. Ok, everyone can make their own decisions, but you may not be aware of all of this depending on the circumstances you are brought up in, so that guy is the one who stomps on someone's head when they're 30 and drunk at a party, or who can't see a problem with cutting all the corners when he builds someone's house (which splits down the middle, don't laugh it's happened) and he runs away with the money, because he doesn't care as long as he's on top.

Can we blame videogames for this? Of course not, I would never try, but they are one aspect of a decadent culture which is ingratiating itself into everything, and we can't say that the games he played as a kid had nothing to do with it. Everything feeds itself into your head, into your sub-concious if not your concious attitudes, and these produce like thought patterns in your mind through habitual behaviour. It's not just 'violence'; playing a game of that wavelength mentally will enforce like levels of thought within us, baser thoughts go together, if we are allready thinking on that level it's not hard to branch out into other aspects of our lives as well. Self-serving attitudes (like drinking, fighting, lying, cheating, sleeping with anything that's under the effects of one of the above, or not as the case may be) are all of a similar unhealthy psyche. If parents were more responcible with what games they let their kids play, then it is a sign that they are probably more responcible about other things as well, and teach moral values to be placed on life, not just personal gain or validation. It is one less area of influence where negative attitudes are emplaced. Sure they need to develop positive attitudes for themselves, but this sort of thing doesn't help.

Games are a sign, that is all they are, you can't single them out, but to say they are meaningless is wrong, odds are if you bought postal for your kid you also do a whole lot of other questionable things and they all add up.

Fixing one problem and taking its effects out of the cultural mindset is another step towards breaking the downwards spiral.

Not that I have a solution mind you, just an endless list of problems. Hey, it's what I do.

That makes me think. I guess all that anyone can do is just that, do the right thing themselves.

 

I think it would be more productive to outlaw CNN. I would rather have my child play Manhunt for 4 hours than watch CNN. Because at the end of the day, I can explain to him that the game isn't real. Trying to truthfully explain September 11th or Zaire to a child is a much more frightening task. It doesn't matter how twisted games, books, and movies are. Real life is much worse.

Besides. people tend go for the media that reflects what was in the back of our minds already. I would guarantee that the two teens that supposedly did the GTA-style slaying were screwed up way before that game came out.

It's up to the parents. I will allow my kid to watch any movie, and play any game he wants, as early as, say, age 7, but by then he should already know that violence is wrong. An open dialogue with your child will help him a lot more than censorship ever can.

 

It's all fun and games until someone actually goes and posts the truth. Might as well lock it, now.

 

Putting genetic effects aside (though this is what i study, i usually don't believe it whole heartedly), yes, environment has its fair share of effects on kids.

i also (want to) believe that parents, educated in parenting, can raise their kids well. And if a kid is raised well, this kid shouldn't have ny problem playing violent games (for the purpose, put aside drug, porn etc aside).

Now, the problem is, not every parent is well educated. Therefore, the chance of violent games promote violent behavior is not 0. William and Joshua Buckner in Washington (dc or state, i don't remember) took a shotgun and randomly injured people because they want to try what they have done in GTA3. They said this themselves. This had happened. And i am sure no one would want to see this again.

Apart from the all so effetive and important parenting, i have to gamble my life on other aspect, like governmental restriction. Therefore, just like no underage can legally buy porn, alcohol and guns, underage should be restricted from buying games not suitable for their age.

Don't you, for once, feel safer if GTA is not a game readily available for immatured?

 

Agreed, which is where my point of the reaction disposition comes into play.

I'm going to be frank and say that I can't even comprehend how an adult could find those overly violent or sexual games to be entertaining. But, then again, maybe that's just me.

There's no substitute for good parenting, and the effects of that will last far longer than censorship ever will. Even before I was considered legally 'adult', I still was offended at the lewd material that some of these games convey.

I am not usually in favor of censorship, but given the competence of many parents today I'm making an exception.

 

So what video game did Genghis Khan play? The days before video games and hollywood movies were astoundingly MORE violent than these days.

I would argue that games, TV, movies etc. cause people to be less violent, simply because they are more sedentary. (Besides, video games don't kill people, GUNS KILL PEOPLE)

Anyone that would point a shotgun out of a car
is obviously riddled with psychological problems much deeper than any video game could create; it's a mix of genetics and environment, certainly, but I think violent personalities are established by age 5, well before the first game paddle is picked up.

 

This is a little Chicken Littleish. I know 2 kids apparently reenacted the GTA scene. How many people were hit by lightning last year? Is someone going mad from GTA REALLY that big of a concern?

Apparently thousands (millions?) of folks have had a lot of fun playing GTA. Two people did something that some others blame on GTA - whether there was a causal relationship is apparently highly, highly debatable. Enough is enough. If your chances of getting hurt by lightning significantly outweigh your chances of being hurt by someone because of GTA - then why spend your time worrying about it?

And yes, I'd rather live in a world that remained freer even if that means the odds of my being hurt increase by 1 in 300 million. Your mileage may vary I suppose.

 

@Ishmael

Guns DON"T kill people, its the idiots who own the guns that kill people. Now I am not saying everyone who owns a gun is an idiot. There are a lot of responsible gun owners out there.
Its kinda like video game players too. Video games don't kill people, its the idiots who take games seriously and can't separate the fantasy from reality.
But has anyone noticed its only games that involve guns that people tend to imitate? When was the last time you heard of someone trying to imitate a battle they played in a Baldur's Gate game and went around in a suit of armor slashing people up?
But seriously. There are some people whose actions are influenced by video games, and other forms of media too. Remember the two kids who started fires because Beavis and Butthead thought fire was cool?
And there are just some things that children should not be exposed to.
Yeah I play some violent games. I love Vice City. Manhunt was alsmost disturbing to me. I'll play Vice City, I won't play Manhunt. So should Manhunt be pulled off the shelves? No, I'm sure there are people who thought the game was fun. No problem in that.
What needs to be done, is what a lot of you have already said. There needs to be better parenting and the employees of the stores need to pay attention to the ratings and not sell mature rated games to kids. And by better parenting, I'm not saying that some kids should not be allowed to play the game. I don't see anything wrong if a parent allowed their kid to play a violent video game and then afterwards sat down and talked to the kid about how the violence in the game was wrong and so forth.
I've always had this theory, I call it the "cookie jar" Children want what they can't have. You tell a kid he can't have something, and even some adults, they want it more. And in some cases the results of getting that thing are worse. My parents taught me about alchohol. Whenever dad had a beer or mom was cooking with beer, I was always allowed a tiny sip. So alchohol was never a mystery to me. I waited till I turned 21 to have my first beer. I never had a problem with alchohol either.
Same thing can be done with violent video games, you can still allow access to them, but there needs to be parental involvment as well.

 

IMHO, I think the ratings are much preferable to censorship. But what also should be kept in mind is that there are different reasons for why a game can get a certain rating. I know a few cases where parents have seen a game that's rated, say, for mature audiences only. They see it, think, "Oh it isn't that bad, no blood or naked people, so other games rated so ccan't be that bad except for some, well, exceptions, and I am SURE my InsertNameHere wouldn't want to get those" But what they donm't treaize that the particular game they saw may have gotten the rating on different merits, such as dealing with difficult psychological subjects... or the bits they've seen are the cleaner ones.

people tend to generalize, and when it comes to ratings that can be a very bad thing.

In my opinion, concerning the violence affecting people adverely, I think spending a few hours slaying orcs/kicking aliens/throwing bananaas at buildings/shooting peole via the computer can be likened to spending a few hours punching a bag for stress relief for the less physically-oriented.

I personally can attest that either works. Be it smacking Firkaaag around after arguing an equally draconic twerp is equally saisfying to turning my knuckles into mush by hitting a sack and using my imagination.

(Then again, I can attest to being all "screwed up" sso maybe I should just shut up....)

 

I find it quite rejoicing how people tend to agree with my point of view However, I think I could try to convince some others.

Let's start from the common argument "ratings won't prevent anything". Of course, ratings themselves aren't any locks to be spoken of. However, I believe that combining them with appropriate parental locks could do some good. After all, kids will get an uncensored version or censure-killing patch. That's a matter of minutes if not seconds. Popular magazines post such things. At this point we may conclude that ratings are no worse than censorship in this regard.

Next argument, "freedom is fine, but there are bits surely no sane parent wants his children to look at or listen to". Indeed. Parental locks seem to be able to feel the holes. You think up some password, enter a special menu, disable all gore and fornication permanently for your kid and switch it on when you sit down to play yourself. This way the kid doesn't see what he's not supposed to see and the game isn't ripped for other people.

Consequently,

is something I easily agree with. That's a perfect example of the difference between depiction and propagation. The border moves when it comes to children, who are more readily influence than adults and, as biologically determined to be bent on learning at the age they are, they fail to distinguish some powerful or otherwise significant character's carefree opinion from speaking with authority. Some games simply deserve R's and X's.

However, joacqin brings up an interesting point too. Some kids will have their brain sucked anyway. No matter if games, TV news, books etc. They will sooner or later find violence and aggression "cool" and impressive. Why? It seems an easy way to avoid the limitations of reality, to jump over the social ladder, to get a kick, to get more toys sooner. Even if they don't seriously hope so, they will still unleash their primitive instincts instead of dealing with them and they will experience the power, including life and death, they so desire. This has always been the case, no matter the level of technical advancement, with kids who want an easier way. If they didn't have violent games, they would torture animals, pull their legs off, and eventually try that on their weaker siblings and friends. There is one keyword: "easier way". The kid makes choice at some point. It's not like he doesn't know right from wrong. He wants to be wrong. For the sake of it, or for gain. Games, TV, comics, everything serves as a vain excuse here. I'm not an expert and I don't know if such kids are results of random bad happenings in early childhood, poor upbgringing, submitting to temptation early, complexes and other disorders, I don't know. Perhaps a little of all. Also depends on what the kids want: more say, more cash, more physical power, more sexual excitement, less morals, less religion. One's sure: they're a special responsibility for their parents. Love, care, good example, if anything is going to change them, it's those. Aggression-worshipping material won't help. Again, if ratings were taken more seriously and if parental locks actually were used. Again, this probably means "if producers agreed to make a few mountains of gold less". See my point? Not only kids get corrupted. Not only the makers of those games. If anything is dangerous, it's the unconditional worship of profit that comes along with capitalism.

Does anyone seriously think that game producers are really going to find and use a succesful solution?

To finish off, another quote from Death Rabbit:

It's interesting how patterns of thought in this thread follow patterns of age. It's like with drinking, smoking and such stuff. It loses most of its taste when it becomes legal for you

 

Age, or more to the point, maturity levels. I am only 24, after all.

I think there is a distinct and obvious correlation between the age you are when you're curious about the "naughty" things you are (or should be) denied in your youth, and the age when you realize there's a good reason these things are discouraged in the first place. And the more intent you are in seeking things out that are forbidden, the more you'll try to justify it with faulty logic, like Equester.

When I was an early teenager I wanted to to get drunk, screw around, be able to beat anybody up, etc. But that's part of being a kid, because all those things are forbidden. I don't care how you're raised, it's always cool to be the "bad" kid. History however shows me that the kids I knew growing up who did exactly that at that age and who's parents let them get away with anything are complete losers today. Some are alcoholics and drug addicts, some had to drop out of high school because they or their girlfriend got pregnant, etc. The acts depicted in these games have very real consequences that young kids just do not understand the magnitude of.

There's a difference between knowing something is "wrong" and doing it anyway because you either don't understand or don't care what the consequences of "wrong" are.

 

There is a very good explanation for why some kids are affected by violent games and some not or less. That reason is linked to the keyword "role-model". We live now in a society where parents spent less and less time with their children and because they feel guilty about it, they spoil the kids instead of raising them properly. This tends to lower their resistances. Related to this lack of time is the fact that the kids have nobody to look up to in their parents since they don't really know them. So they turn to other things to admire and some of them turn to video games for this matter.

Nobody should ever underestimate the potential of video games in education. Just remember the fact that kids and youngsters thend to learn things better if brought to them under the form of a game. This also holds true with video games. They take subconsciously lessons from what they see in these games, even though that doesn't need to be reflected in their behaviour.

These influences of video games become more pronounced in situations where there are no alternatives, i.e. the parents aren't a source of education. Most parents these days tend to minarize the part they play in their kids education and hide behind reasonings like "School has to teach them education". The parents flee from their responsability and that is what makes it possible for violent video games to have such an influence on the kid's behaviour.

So the solution has in fact nothing to do with censoring or rating video games, although the ratings can help parents that aren't at home in the world of video games. It doesn't even have anything to do with video games at all but with the role of the parents in our actual society. It's not the violence in the games that needs to be fighted but the carelessness and irresponsability of the parents.

Now before anybody tries to kill me, I'm not saying that todays parents all are bad. I even tend to notice an improvement in the current new generation of parents. But there are indeed alot of parents that should be called to the order.

To be entirely honest, it isn't all the fault of the parents. It is increasingly difficult in our society to be a responsible parent. The parents don't have time, are put under alot of stress, etc... I know this and understand it but that doesn't mean they can hide behind those facts to defend their behaviour entirely, some of the responsability still lies in their hands.

All in all the only way there will ever be an improvement is if our entire society becomes more responsible. Then there will be less kids influenced by violent material.

@ Ishmael
That really is one of the most irresponsible things you can do. You definitely belong in the type of parents described above if that is really your viewpoint. The only reason I can see for not letting them watch it is because CNN is a propaganda channel, just like every other news channel. But the reasons you give are just plain laziness. Add to that the fact that by such behaviour you teach the kid that it's ok to use imaginary things to shield him from reality. That is always a bad lesson to learn. I was once in a case were I did that, but because of certain situations that do have nothing to do with education and that I'm not going to discuss here. If you shield yourself in that way it almost automatically leads to irresponsible behaviour since you'll have no idea about how it is going in the real world. You may know that the games are only fantasy, but that knowledge will hardly matter if you don't now anything about reality.

 

As I've said twice, ratings do nothing. They, however, if properly assigned, can warn people off something they don't want to look or hear. Let's say you don't mind religion bashing, but dislike political bashing. And I enjoy political bashing while aren't OK with religion bashing. So you don't buy politics-intense ones and I stay away from religion-mocking ones. A more complex system could allow me to get what I like in other respects. Like I'm quite fond of explicit material (world isn't heaven and I'm male, after all) and broadly understood adult themes, but on the other hand fail to see anything other than stupidity in violence for its own sake or random fornication.

Bashing left aside, they should also mark the stuff that's going to mend you and reshape in the image of the author Anything that promotes civic virtues, goodbye. Sobriety promotion? See you (never again). Sexual education (aka always wear condoms in your pocket, do both sexes and several other creatures to be open-minded and progressive and don't listen to parents & priests when they tell you to zip it), hands off my kids and my cat. And so on.

 

I never said it did , although it indeed may seem like that from the text (now that I've reread it). I actually meant that whatever you do with the games, it won't be a difference if society doesn't change. But the reason it doesn't do anything is pointed out in my previous post. If society changed and parents could/would be more responsible then ratings will start doing something. For now they would only either be a waste of time or just a nice decoration since only a few exceptions would care to look at them.

On the other hand I'd like to see the current rating system replaced by one like you suggested, one that doesn't say "this game is for over x jears" but states something as to the content of the game. That would make searching for a good game easier, since I would be informed that some parts that are included would be boring for me or maybe even offensive. It would give you a more solid base for choosing which game to buy besides what's written on the cover, since that's just made to make the game sell. The rating should not only include things that may be offensive but also other things that people might want to know about the game that aren't necessarily negative.