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Vice-President Picks

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Aug 19, 2008.

  1. Cernak Gems: 12/31
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    I have heard the same, Chandos, but even more forcefully: That McCain was quite determined to choose Lieberman as his running mate, and that his advisers bluntly insisted that half the delegates would walk off the floor if he did so. (But would they have done so? In any case McCain declined the challenge, if such it was.) This led to the hasty choice of Palin, and the resulting windfall for bloggers and rumor-mongers such as us. In a sense the Palin choice says less about Palin than it does about who McCain was determined NOT to pick: Romney, whom he dislikes, probably loathes; Huckabee, a vote-grabber who would energize the evangelicals, but also a populist who is quite unreliable on many issues; Ridge, probably his pro-choice stance and a general view that he's a non-entity. Palin becomes young, exciting, an evangelical, and, above all, an affirmation of McCain the Maverick.

    But you're right DR, the vetting was a little loose, and a little hasty, and they may regret it.
     
  2. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
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    This one can be a bit tricky. AFAIK her major win is the introduction of a windfall tax on the oil companies. Well, this exact thing is what the Obama campaign proposes and the McCain campaign opposes, so bringing attention to it may backfire

    As for the situation with her daughter and putting political ambitions ahead of your family, I am not bothered by any of these myself but rather how it comes off for her. The problem is that even though I it is not a problem for my political views, the idea that a woman should focus on raising a family often appears in conservative positions (and she has certainly been credited for having a family of seven), so it may be somewhat hypocritical to defend her by saying that we would not agree with it. However, I doubt it would be a big thing against her - afaik most conservative voters like her, so they will probably overlook minor issues.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2008
  3. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    For starters: 6 things Palin pick says about McCain.

    I just read that Palin wasn't interviewed by McCain's campaign team until before the day she was picked. So, if Senator McCain died during his presidency he will entrust this nation to a person ... whom he hardly knows? Startling.

    That sounds to me either arbitrary, erratic or like something that was forced on McCain. In case of the latter the question would be by whom. No matter what the answer is, I think the question is warranted whether McCain, or whoever picked Palin, thinks the American voter is stupid. To me statements from GOPers on Palin like the following suggest just that:
    • Cindy McCain:
      "You know, she — the experience that she comes from is with what she’s done in the government. And, also, remember, Alaska is the closest part of our continent to Russia. So it’s not as if she doesn’t understand what’s at stake here." :lol:
      .​
    • Michael Barone:
      "Foreign policy experience? Well, Alaska is the only state with a border with Russia. And it is the only state with territory, in the Aleutian Islands, occupied by the enemy in World War II." :lol: :lol: Yes indeed, as Palin remembers certainly extremely well, after all she wasn't even born then. By that criterion I have national security experience because my city was flattened in WW-II, and, oh yes, my grandfather served in Russia during WW-II and my grand-grandfather in WW-I :rolleyes:
      .​
    • And anyway:
      What them biased mainstream media morons forgot to mention is that Palin has learned playing Risk that Kamchatka is key to Asia. Palin is totally ready to kick your ass in Risk if she becomes commander in chief.
      .​
    • I could go on, but ...
      ... someone else may please contribute to that collection of silliness, because I won't go on as I run risk spilling my coffee giggling :)
    Now spot the talking point for the prols. All that is not to say that Palin is a moron, but that she is sold with moronic arguments. Thankfully, she's not telling this nonsense herself. She might be a reasonably likeable and nice person, but that is beside the point. The entire theme of her having national security experience is palpably silly. Talk about spreading a moronic meme. Like McCain she is being marketed like toothpaste or a laundry detergent. Facts have no place there.

    In any case, my personal belief is that McCain doesn't care about Palin, and that her function is to bring in votes, and that's about it. Freshman Palin wouldn't dare to dissent with the old cantankerous warrior (one advantage of inexperience from a employer point of view is that such people are more easily 'formed') and as long as "the numbers" add up for the campaign staff ... That would explain why apparently McCain sees no risk in making a person he hardly knows second in command: Because she is considered pliable. And it suggests why he doesn't worry about her succeeding him in case of his death: Because apparently the to-be-mandarins in his administration are confident they can handle her. They're playing a cynical game with Palin.

    And I think that the GOPers have underestimated Palin's scandal potential, which appears not fully explored yet. Odds are that she drops out. Which she should do if she knows what's good for her. She even has a compassionately conservative argument on the shelf for doing so - her family.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2008
  4. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
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    Rags, even after the Edwards affair, I think we should approach an article in NE with a bit of doubt ;)
     
  5. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    If Rags is spending the time to do research to slam Palin... I'm starting to like the selection more and more :lol:
     
  6. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
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    Considering how known Palin was 1 week ago, I'd be freaked out if he didn't need to do research.
     
  7. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    TGS,
    I don't care to slam Palin. I am pretty indifferent towards that person. What interests me is how she is sold, and why she was chosen. My interest then ends about there. The links were about giving you an idea of what's likely to come in terms of scandals and pseudo-scandals. For that sort of gossip the NE is right place to start looking.

    I still think McCain will win, even though Obama is clearly the much more intelligent candidate and the superior persuader, and yes, probably the better president. I think that intelligence is a benefit in a president. If McCain wins that would be a disaster for America; it would mean four more years like Bush's first term. Horrors. Obama is far from perfect, and he won't give us Europeans an easy time, not the point, but he's at least intelligent.

    Heck after eight years of Bush, if I was American, I would prefer Nixon, or Putin for that, over McCain or Bush, just because they both possess the degree and kind of intelligence that's called for to deal with the problems America faces today.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2008
  8. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    @Ragusa

    Then when can I expect a similar post about how Biden is being sold and why he was chosen. What potential scandals and pseudo-scandals are awaiting him?

    Although I do find it amusing that you want Obama, but believe McCain will win and I want McCain but believe that Obama will win. I'm wondering if we are both trying negative reinforcement :)
     
  9. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

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    We already know how Biden is being sold and why he was chosen. Biden's senatorial resume effectively shuts down any attacks that McCain could have made on Obama's alleged inexperience. As far as scandals go, Biden is a known commodity. He's been vetted by his decades in the Senate, by his presidential bid, and ultimately by the Obama campaign, itself. The only baggage Biden carries lies with his tendency to gaffe, which the Obama campaign obviously considered to be outweighed by the benefits of having him on the ticket.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2008
  10. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Hilarious Rags! :lol: :thumb:
     
  11. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
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    So, it appears that the new line of defense of Palin's lack of experience is that she "has more executive experience than Obama." I have to say, Newt Gingrich looked quite enthusiastic and did a fairly good job on that MSNBC interview.

    However, this line might not be as defensible as it seemed. Personally, I would think that being a state Senator is a notably more important position than being a mayor of a small town, so equating them seemed like sophistry to me. Actually, do state governors have any function on the national level?
     
  12. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Shaman: My neighbor gave up being a state senator in Illinois to be the mayor of my town. The state senate position was basically part time -- the job of mayor was far more taxing on him.

    Clearly a governor has more responsibility than does a US Senator -- especially a Senator that has been campaigning nearly his entire term (and I like Obama - he just hasn't done anything for us here in Illinois). The Governor has control of the National Guard from their state -- I would call that a national level function.
     
  13. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

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    The commitment and responsibilities involved with being a mayor are directly proportionate to the population of the city. Iowa City, where I live, has a population of about 70,000 people without factoring in the 25,000 college students that come in each school year. The Iowa City Mayor understandably has a full time job. The mayor of Lonetree, a small town about 10 miles away with a population of about 2,000, works about 3 hours a week.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2008
  14. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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    I don't suppose you'd be willing to explain why you like the selection?
     
  15. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

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    I caught parts of her speech tonight. She sounds like she has a brain in her head. And if the Republicans win, I'd like to apply for the VP sex scandal...
     
  16. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
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    I've heard the National Guard argument, and it left me a little nonplussed. How exactly does a governor control the National Guard? I can imagine deciding whether to send it to help with natural disasters, at most, but anything else would probably be taken by the Department of Defense.

    Edit: On the other hand, I have newfound respect for the town of Wasilla - it is the 9the largest in Alaska.
     
  17. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    I agree with Shaman. Unless disaster strikes 'control of the national guard' appears to be a largely ceremonial function. According to Wiki:
    And as for disaster relief, in early 2007 the Whitehouse federalised control over the National Guard for cases of an emergency. The president can take control anytime if he feels it is warranted. That is a long shot away from the old state militias from before the Militia Act of 1903.

    I read that the Alaska National Guard has a strength of 1.850+ personnel. Now, what Alaska does have that is special is the Alaska State Defense Force. An independent State Militia! Which except from that murky command chain thingy is solely hers, Alaska's that is. The argument is within reach!

    :rolling: National security experience! :rolling:

    In 2004 the ASDF adopted the name "49th Military Police Brigade (49th MP BDE)". The current Army brigade combat teams have about what, 4.000 men? Well, in the Alaska State Defense Force a brigade numbers more than 250 soldiers (p.14 of annual report). And what is this unit's task? The primary role of the 49th MP BDE is ...
    And now check what they've been doing. There's your militarised/police-powered FEMA that has been organised in a way to get federal funding from the pots of the defence department and homeland security. Smart move. And while the ASDF is far from useless, your average metropolitan police department is probably larger. Let's keep things in perspective. There is a difference between titles and functions and what's behind the associated acronyms.

    To spin the experience she has and the functions that she held into 'national security experience is just ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2008
  18. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    The major difference is that being a mayor and a governor is Executive experience. Being a senator is Legislative experience. The Presidency is the top Executive position in the country.

    Therefore, the mayor of a little podunk town has more executive experience then any Senator, and a governor has even more experience.

    This also applies to McCain.
     
  19. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

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    In much the same way that the assistant manager of a McDonalds has more managerial experience than a freshly graduated Harvard MBA. :rolleyes: Not all executive experience is equal.
     
  20. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Huge points to Biden on this one. He handled that question perfectly.
     
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