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Well said.
But I'm still curious about the polls...
Why always with the polls? And why are 9 out of 10 votes in this poll yours?

 

I accept AD's apology. As I stated in an earlier post I met many of the members when they were his age and younger and I learned from them They opened a whole new world to me. I think some of them may have learned a bit from me. They have certainly kept me from getting entrenched in my own ways and opinions which is something we are inclined to do as we get older.

Just as Caradhras will defend his friends so will I and many of my friends are from Europe. Many are from the British Isles and many are from England and of course Caradhras is from France. On Steam I have grown to know and appreciate a Russian friend.

The Internet has expanded my boundaries to reach around the world. Who is my neighbor? Why, you and you and you are my neighbors.

 

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_Switzerland

 

Enlargement of Switzerland sounds like a topic for the MUG.

 

Nobody is taking that seriously at least nobody who knows that the whole thing is merely meant as a jab directed at the EU.

FYI the Swiss People's Party is yet another populist nationalistic party far on the right wing with clear xenophobic tendencies. Interestingly enough they wish to abolish the Federal Commission against Racism in the name of free speech (which is probably something that you would support).

The UN Human Rights Council and Amnesty International have singled out the Swiss People's Party as being responsible for the increase in racism and xenophobia.

Am I the only one who can see a pattern here?

 

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Political_racism_rears_ugly_head.html?cid=33731964
Here is a link to a October 2012 Swiss Newspaper site which has a report on what Cara has mentioned. At the moment I have no newer information on the outcome of this matter. It does seem that Switzerland has a problem.

 

I think the answer of the German embassy to inquiries about the issue mentioned in the Wikipedia article more or less sums up my feelings about the seriousness of this "enlargement project". But I suppose the motion was at least supported by some MPs making it slightly less laughable than the restoration of the Austrian Empire but not by much.

 

My reaction sitting on this side of our big pond is disillusionment. Another stereotype bites the dust and this one was a positive one. The Swiss somehow represented something special. A group of people who were neutral who set themselves apart from the petty bickering of the rest of us mortals. No not gods or saints but bit wiser. I have never given it much thought just accepted that they were a unique and special country.

 

They are not that bad, they are just human. It's just that their model for democracy (direct democracy) makes it very easy for rabble rousers to get the job done. All they have to do is play on fears and inadequacies and blame foreigners and politicians for whatever is wrong in the country (which pretty much sums up the populist agenda).

When considering the US I've always found interesting that the Founding Fathers rejected direct democracy in order to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority.

I guess what we see here with Switzerland is that their political model is not perfect either. The Swiss are not worse than other people in Europe. Xenophobia is fuelled by the economic crisis and the fact that most people are only too eager to look for scapegoats to blame for their own failures.

 

That's exactly the same in a lot of countries right now, including the UK. Parties like the UKIP and BNP have gained small success due to focusing their manifesto in singular issues that the right wing idiots bleat about. Such as immigration or defection from the EU. They're not serious parties and would fold like origami if they ever got any real power, but you will always get angry people voting for parties like that as a kind of protest in times of crisis. Its human nature to want to lay blame at the nearest thing.

 

So nice that they ask the people first if they would be interested. But they aren't asking the federal governments of France, Germany, Austria, or Italy. It just doesn't work that way. Even if a majority of people living in that region wanted to become part of Switzerland, there's no way their current nation would just allow them to leave. (Well, they can leave if they like - but they can't take the territory they're living on with them.)

It would be like if a town in Texas near the border with Mexico was largely filled with people native to Mexico, and they decided since they were the majority, they could change the border and become part of Mexico again if they wished. I mean, we're talking about national borders here. What can be more critical (or at least obvious) to a nation's sovereignty (sp?) than being able to define its own borders with it's neighbors? The point being is you don't decide where a nation's borders are by asking people living in the border region which country they would like to be in. Any such change would have to be agreed upon by the government of Switzerland and the government of the country in question, which simply isn't going to happen.

 

The motion was political theater not to be taken seriously. A bit like the time Mitch Mcconnel filibustered his own bill in the US Senate. Some MPs felt it as a snap towards the EU to discuss the expansion of the Swiss confederation instead of Switzerland joining the EU. The German press apparently saw it interesting enough to speculate with the thought for a moment until it got buried under more important news. If someone wishes to interpret that as serious discussion then it's their prerogative based on willful ignorance.

 

I do not think Switzerland is worse than we are I just was under the misconception that were a little better.

A friend who is a Historian and although not a Political Science has made Politics a special study gave the following to me and gave me permission to post it I wish. The article is long but in my opinion well worth reading. It always shows why we of the USA, at least those of us who really think and care, are so staunchly supportive of our Constitution and do believe it is the best form of Human Government that there currently is. Politically the author is a Fiscal Conservative. He is also from Texas, fourth or fifth generation. He does mention Switzerland as one of the countries having an effective means of controlling government and I will let him know that he should check further into that. That Switzerland has a direct democracy not a controlled one.

"In Politics Any-Thing-Goes is how it works, and things like the US Constitution, constrain it to protect the Citizens from the Government. Without some form of effective control, Governments of any kind will devolve into some form of Dictatorship.

For Nations like Russia, China, Most of the Mid East, or most of Latin America, having a Dictatorship take over their Government could be a lot more likely than in the US. In these older Cultures, having some kind of Totalitarianism as part of their History, without a lot of some form of Democracy lasting for more than one or two generations, makes it more acceptable to the People. Even in traditional Democracies like Germany of the 1920s, they fell under a Total Dictatorship under control by one man. After WWI, Germany was required to pay Reparations to the Victors of the "War to End All Wars", to pay for the costs of the War. This put so much pressure on the People of Germany, that they Voted in someone that told them he could solve all their problems. All he needed was just a little more control over this or that, and in 2 or 3 years he had gathered most of the available Power of the Government, and by 2 or 3 more years he had all of it.

In Countries like France, United Kingdom, Switzerland, the United States, and others, that have a long History of Democracy, and some form of governmental rules that effectively control the Government, and protect the People from the Government, falling under a Dictatorship is not very likely. The Controls in place are always under attack, and without the Peoples constant watching of how their Government is operating, and who is working against the Controls on their Government, they too are likely to fall under the Control of their own Government.

A lot of the Responsibility of watching the Government is handed over to the News Media, and most of the various companies, and organizations that "Report" on the Activities of any Government at any level, tend to have an agenda of their own. Most are desperately trying to sell advertising space, so they can stay in business, and to do that they have to entertain and attract attention, and that often leads to poor quality in how the News is Reported. Combine that economic fact with the common News Media tendency to also have a Political Agenda, you can see how important it is to learn how to think on your own, and to exercise your right to Vote.

Always Remember that any Rights you have Always come with Responsibilities. Nearly all News Media, and certainly all Politicians, will tell you how your Rights are under attack from what ever side of the Political spectrum they are against, but they will very rarely tell you anything about what Your Responsibilities are, or how to Exercise Your Responsibilities."

 

I personally in real life know about 17 Americans and only two of them own guns. Not a very scientific sample I know.

 

Hi Harbs, actually it may be pretty good. If you check the stats for many polls they are based on a sampling of 1000 people and then expanded to included 300,000 or even 300 mil. I am not joking. recently I had reason to do some serious research including polls. Plus usually the person citing the poll or statistics has not bothered to read the accompanying documentation.

 

It was proposed as an alternative to the EU, and a much better alternative at that. The majority of the people in those areas even agreed that they want to join Switzerland and that the Swiss represent their views better than the Austrian/French/German/Italian governments.

There's nothing "racist" or "xenophobic" about opposing the EU or supporting UKIP. You leftists love to accuse anyone who dares disagree with you a "racist." You're just distracting away from real racism in order to gain political points, it's absolutely disgusting.

The Swiss aren't the problem, people like you are the problem. People who would sacrifice freedom in the name of security. The fact that you hate freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, the right to bear arms and democracy makes you no better than the fascists you claim to be fighting against. You have become so swept up in your fervor against perceived enemies that you have become the very enemy you claim you hate.

 

There is so much irony in that comment that I'm not sure where the best place is to begin. But I'll start with your perceived need to own guns to protect from tyranny of the state.

 

Temper much?

Because Nakia doesn't agree with your gun toting ways you feel entitled to label her an "enemy"?

You deal in absolute terms, if someone disagrees with you then he or she has to be the "enemy"... That is so narrow minded...

To borrow from Obi Wan Kenobi: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

At least the Sith are cool and they make great villains.

If anything it's people like you who are a threat to liberty and freedom because they can't find ways to defend their points without resorting to violence (in this case verbal violence).

You should be ashamed of yourself...

Populist parties like the UKIP or the French Front National are trying to make racism mainstream by pretending it is not a big deal and that what they're saying is the truth. Sure, it's easier to put the blame on foreigners or people with a somewhat darker skin. It's easier to blame Muslims and Jews for everything that is going wrong in Europe.

To pretend that they're not racists is either misguided or dishonest. It is misguided if you are too blind to see that they are (at best) covert racists and dishonest if you have actually looked into their programs.

What majority? I certainly didn't receive any invitation to vote nor was I consulted and seeing that I am of age and a French citizen who is registered in that area I should have been asked for my opinion...

So are you going to tell me that I agreed to that asinine scheme?

Let me put it this way, I live near the Swiss border and there is absolutely no truth in what you're posting!

Who do you think you're fooling? Seriously, that is beyond preposterous.

 

Cara, don't waste your time on this. I have heard worse than this. Been called worse. This is actually rather mild.

Extremists of either use screaming, yelling, insults of the worst in their opinion to prove their point. They either intentional misquote and misinterpret what you say or post or don't bother to actually read the posts or listen to what you say.

This is now degenerating down to a point that we may all get moderated.

I just want to post a disclaimer to all that this person does NOT speak for the majority of residents and citizens of the United States of America.