United States of Earth

Remove all ads!

This thread moves pretty fast came back to add an edit and am too late.

Again to make things very clear.

Yes, I think the United States of America is just another country . I am sure the citizens of Denmark love their country and think it is pretty great, most of them anyway.

This is a big world with lots of countries on it. China has become a power. Does that make it the greatest country? Not for me to live there. The USA did not invent civilization we built on it, we took from Europe what we wanted and we changed what we wanted. We are a nation of immigrants and we carry those roots with us but are not bound by them. That is what makes us unique. We are the descendants of Native Americans, Scots, English, Welch, Irish, Italian, French. Chinese, Japanese, Africans and on and on. In New York City 800 languages are spoken. If needed I can find my source for that.

We are a constitutional republic. The United Kingdom is a constitutional monarchy. The governments may have similarities but they are by no means the same. France is also a Republic but I haven't done any depth study on its government which seems a bit more complicated to me. They are up to the Fifth Republic. Seems they like change. The European Union is not a government it is a voluntary union mainly I gather for economic purposes but I will happily let a European explain that to me. My opinion is that I know more about the USA and they do simply by living here and they know more about their countries than I do because they live there.

My theory is that if I don't know something I ask someone I think may know. Sometimes I don't ask because I don't know the question. Not long ago I learned there is a tiny country bordering Spain, principality of Andorra, I had never heard of it so I asked about it thinking maybe it was a new country only to find out that it is ancient. There is no shame to not knowing something. The shame to me is not being willing to say "I do not know, please enlighten me."

Added: Quote from Aldeth

Thank you, Aldeth, that gave me a really good laugh. Best for a long time. That includes my cousins. They picked the USA over Mexico.

 

The UK is not a constitutional monarchy, the monarch of the UK is symbolic only, has no actual power and is not the head of state, everything involving the queen is merely tradition and not a sign of actual power.

and... its Welsh, not welch

 

She was referring to the country that makes grape juice....

 

Thanks, Shoshino, this proves what I am trying to say leave the explanations up to those who actually know something about it. I admit I looked that up in the Wikipedia. Plus having been told by an Englishman that it was Constitutional Monarchy. Could he have meant England? I would like to know more.
I should know better. The spelling is my own fault. Thanks, Bruno but you should know me well enough to know that without spell check Tal wouldn't let near the Board.

 

You're absolutely right, I'm not sure "who started it" or even if that matters, but I openly admit that I was rather hostile early on. I apologize for insulting anyone, for instance, when I implied Nakia was "dense." Such statements are not only against the rules, but they are also uncalled for.

 

Erm, we are a constitutional monarchy mate.

 

Obviously not everyone in America loves guns, just as not everyone in Britain loves drinking tea. I agree with you here, I think we are discussing very different things. For instance, I am a firearms enthusiast, but I don't "love guns." My parents don't even own firearms, yet they are strong supporters of the Second Amendment. Perhaps a more accurate description of the United States would be that we have a gun culture, in other words, guns are fundamentally intertwined with American culture.

Like you, Gaear, I find many of the misrepresentation of gun owners in this thread to be rather alarming. It seems like some people here have the misconception that most (or even a small minority of) gun owners are "rednecks who take pot shots at passing cars." I don't know a single gun owner who would ever think of doing something so reckless. The vast majority of gun owners are responsible people just like you and me, we're not psychopathic serial killers or irresponsible "rednecks."

 

Mea Cupla, hokay guys what are you? And are we completely off topic. Hmm the topic is becoming part of the USA. So do you want to give up you form of government and join us? A simple yes or no will do. If I have any say in the matter you can keep your European football. I actually like it better than ours. Don't understand either one though.

 

The concept of America as a single unitary state is very new, Nakia. If you look at history, everyone had always perceived the United States as a collection of mostly independent states that have voluntarily come together. We're not like Denmark, where we are a single unitary state, dedicated to only one small region and culture.

To this day there are talks about Switzerland being enlarged and adopting more cantons, and such talk is taken very seriously both inside and outside of Switzerland. But if someone dares propose the idea that someday Israel might become an American state, they are brutally attacked for it? What makes the Swiss wanting to accept new cantons so different from Americans wanting to accept new states?

If we started doing this in the early 20th century, everyone on this forum (aside from aristocratic monarchists) would have jumped at the idea to join the United States. Even communists wanted to join the United States, look at Ho Chi Minh, a leading communist who greatly admired the United States. He was so inspired by the values of the United States that he bought a suit and flew to Europe in an attempt to meet the president of the United States. He also helped the United States during World War II by providing military intelligence and by helping downed American pilots over French Indochina. When he devised the Vietnamese declaration of independence, he modeled it after the American Declaration of Independence. Himself and the Vietnamese people even had ceremonies promoting American ideas and culture. Ho Chi Minh and others sincerely hoped that the United States would support Vietnam in their struggle against the French.

 

Well, the parliament as the real power (thanks to Oliver Cromwell) and all matters of state are decided in the House Of Parliament. The monarch can recommend action and has a certain amount of pull, but no 'real' power. However our goverment is still classed as Constitutional Monarchy. I think the Netherlands and Belgium have pretty much the same system. I guess that's why historically we've always been good mates.

 

Even if people should chose to call it a constitutional monarchy it isn't, the government model is different, for it to be a constitutional monarchy the queen would be the head of state in an active roll, to put in a simple term the queen would be getting parliment to do her job for her but retaining exectutive power. The queen doesn't have any power over the governace of the UK and therefore it is not a constitutional monarchy.

 

American Football players hardly ever kick the ball, but they still call it football :-P. To argue wording is just semantics. For better or for worse, we have a monarchy.

 

Well why didn't you just say that up front? No one is going to argue with that. It's self-evident, and doesn't need to be debated.

 

Really? Who is having such discussions and who are taking them seriously? I certainly have very difficult time in taking the notion of expanded Switzerland seriously. Or is it serious in the same way as the Habsburg restoration of the Austrohungarian monarchy is serious? Meaning that there's a dozen individuals (who have a website) on the internet taking it seriously and the rest are laughing it off as a joke.

 

According to the United States Flag Code, the Pledge of Allegiance reads:
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Maybe they don't teach and use the Pledge of Allegiance in schools anymore. We recited this every day when I was in grade school but that was a long time ago. Please note the underlined words. One Nations, not 59 nations forming some alliance. Yes, the states are unique some more so than others. Texas is unique because it was a Nation in its own right which chose for economic reasons to become a state.. Alaska was purchased from the Russians . Cited from the Wikipedia so you know I am not tossing out random opinions but verifiable facts.

Hawaii's history is a bit less savory in my opinion. I will be happy to cite my reasons for saying that but in order to keep from writing I book I will now only say that The Territory of Hawaii was given by Congress in Mar. of 1959 the choice of becoming a state or remaining a territory without any chance of gaining independence. Just as is true of many countries our history is dipped in blood, greed and arrogance. Yes we are a great nation great at getting what we want.

To get back to the subject of having other Nations join our union and it is a union, a strong one not a loose confederation. I would like to know what countries of the world where clambering to join join us. I date back to the forties of the twentieth century and I don't recall hearing any discussion or reading and I read a lot of any nation that wanted to form more than a normal foreign alliance with us. I need more concrete evidence than random statements to persuade me I am wrong.

Anyone has a right to disagree with me but if you want me to change my opinion or change my mind about things I believe to be facts you need proof, good solid proof from creditable sources. I reserve the right to accept the sources as creditable. Propaganda put out by organizations or groups that are obviously serving their own interments is not proof. Polls stating what the man or woman on the street think are not proof. David Letterman loves to do that as a joke and show just how stupid people can be. Give me something that I can bite into, chew on and think about.

 

Under god isn't actually part of the pledge.

but they kick the ball... the queen cannot.

Tal, it doesn't matter what wiki says, the queen cannot overrule parliment, ever since king charles was executed in whitehall, parliment has had total executive power over the monarchy, the royal family simply exists as a token today.

 

So you are suggesting patronizing someone because you're assuming that he/she is a "kid"? Why not try to engage that person as an equal instead?

After all that's the beauty of the internet, you can't tell how old someone is so you have to forge your own opinion on someone's posts regardless of their age or the way they look.

I have some experience teaching highschool and I can tell you that most teenagers can think. Some teenagers may lack method and they may tend to be more idealistic (not always) but they can also be more interesting than most adults.

As an adult you just have to be willing to listen instead of assuming that you have all the answers and as a teacher you just have to help students find their own answers (and that's the difference between teaching and preaching).

People don't wake up one morning with the ability to think. With age and experience you may get more critical (but also more entrenched in your own ways of thinking) but the only way to learn stuff is to accept that you may not know everything (definitely a step in the right direction). Being older only means that you've been around more, it doesn't mean that you've learned from your mistakes.

The OP has been lecturing us about the US and Europe. My knowledge of the US comes from attending lectures, reading books, watching TV and talking with American people in real life and online and I can't help but thinking that the picture he is painting is not the same picture I've put together throughout the years. That being said when it comes to Europe I can no longer give the OP the benefit of the doubt because living in Europe I know for a fact that he doesn't have a clue.

Anyone going around posting such outlandish statements in the Alleys is going to have to accept the fact that someone out there has actually been to Europe or is actually living here and as a result may have to point out that those assumptions are a bit iffy if not entirely wrong. I'm not just talking about Europeans by the way, even Americans can't agree with the OP's views on the US.

Let me remind you that on several occasions the OP has been particularly offensive to Europeans and then moved to throwing names around. I don't know about you but I certainly don't take well to someone insulting my friends. He has apologized for insulting Nakia and it is definitely a step in the right direction as it's impossible to discuss anything once you've created a hostile environment.

 

Tal, I know what these websites say, I argued this back when I was studying economics and they tried to categorise economic/political models as simply "free market, mixed... etc etc..", that website is actually false, the queen is not the head of state, even if some may want to call her that. She does not retain executive power over parliment, cannot preside over or veto any bills or laws passed within the houses of parliment or lords she doesn't even carry a vote, a measly back bencher has more power than her. Some may call it a constitutional monarchy but by definition it is not.