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Under-rated and over-rated mage spells

Discussion in 'BG2: Shadows of Amn (Classic)' started by The Mountain Hare, Sep 1, 2006.

  1. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
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    @Silverstar: That's cuz you want to take the easy way out and kill all those beefed up baddies without doing all the grunt work! :p

    And because you are running a game which is NOT even CLOSE to Baldurs Gate 2 Shadows of Amn...but some distantly related hybrid... :D

    Your opinion is not APPLICABLE!! :D :D :D Haha...

    /jk!
     
  2. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
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    So you say my BG2 is no longer the original game? If so, it is for the better, I like it better this way!

    So I do not have any right to comment in BG2 game forums? Oww... :cry: This is so bitter!
     
  3. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    Indeed Silverstar. We could limit you to your own specific forum where only gamers with over 30 mods may post.

    OTOH, at times I get close to qualifying...
     
  4. Mordokai Gems: 6/31
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    Personaly, I don't use Finger of death very much, but when I do, it tends to do it's job very well. Used it on Asgareth(or what is that demon in 3rd level WK name?) once, killed him that very instant :D Plus, it does damage to the enemy, even if it makes his save. So, I tend to agree with Silverstar, FoD in useful :) Even more so if you use Greater malison before it.
     
  5. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey Mmm... hot tea! Veteran

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    @ Fabius Maximus
    If I asked someone in my party what their plan was when we attack Firkraag I don't want to hear them rely on Doom (magic resistance) followed by Chromatic Orb (should also be subject to MR).

    The following is based on vague memories as I don't have the game installed atm. Firkraag's MR is 65% and his save vs Death is 3.
    Casting Doom then has a 35% chance of inflicting a -2 penalty on Firkraags saves. That still means that Chromatic Orb - which also should have a 35% chance of getting through the MR - still fails on everything except a Critical Failure (1).

    What are the final odds of success here?
    Since Doom appears to do nothing, I say you have a 1.75% chance of success, or 1 in 57.
    I don't play like that. Having to reload is a major failure.

    Your story of killing Firkraag with Chromatic Orb is an excellent example of how many people seriously overrate this spell.

    [ October 01, 2006, 11:48: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]
     
  6. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    Or you can use as many buffs as possible and send the big meatshield with the lovely sword and shield you just picked up in Mr F.'s lair -I always thought it was very silly to get an anti dragon weapon in the den of a great wyrm...
     
  7. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
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    Chromatic orb needs a save vs spells, not death. Firkraag has a save vs spell of 5, IIRC. With GM and doom, he can fail his saving throw vs Chromatic Orb %20 time:a big chance if you ask me.
     
  8. Fly2tHeSkY

    Fly2tHeSkY Southern Comfort Veteran

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    Yes it's a GREAT spell isn't it!
     
  9. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey Mmm... hot tea! Veteran

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    Doom still has to get past MR and the same should be true with CO.
     
  10. Register Gems: 29/31
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    THE most underrated spell is Skull Trap. Everyone chose Fireball instead, despite it having a lower dicecap and an element that more enemies are resistant to(Fire vs Slashing). The only advantage Fireball has is that it's Impact Effect while Skull Trap is Proximity Effect, but there's very few places that actually has an effect.
     
  11. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    I concur with Earl Grey on the Chormatic Orb issue- it simply isn't statistically worth it. If Silverstar is right about the saving throw and both GM and Doom get past MR, then you still only have a one in five chance of killing Firkraag. To be honest, that simply isn't worth it- especially in comparison to FoD which would (assuming everything gets past MR) force a -8 saving throw IIRC, bringing the chance of killing Firkraag to 60%.
     
  12. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    There's a few things wrong with this.

    1. I wouldn't call it underrated because everyone already knows how good it is as compared to Fireball.
    2. Skull Trap does pure magic damage (a la Magic Missile), not slashing.
    3. The biggest disadvantage to Skull Trap is its shorter range. (Being essentially a proximity mine is an advantage, not a disadvantage.)

    Now, I usually take Skull Trap for my offensive casters, but for stealth casters*, which I use more often, I pick Fireball because Skull Trap simply wouldn't work.

    *Glossary:
    stealth caster - a caster who will cast a spell at a point just outside the edge of a scouted enemy group and then hide to prevent detection when the spell hits. Typically a thief variant.

    [class] variant - any single, dual, or multi-class character with [class] as one of its classes.
     
  13. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
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    You really should tell me how stealth bomber works someday, Felinoid, it sounds cool but I never make it work. Is it due to my mods or am I just playing stupidly?

    Ofcourse, once I get SoM... :evil:
     
  14. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    @ Silverstar: The stealth caster is easy to use when you have maxed out stealth skills. Just cast Fireball, step back a step if you want to make sure you are out of visual range and hit Hide in Shadows. Hey presto! Jan and Immy can both do this (Nalia can have a go too but is likely to need potions) with a good degree of success.
     
  15. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Actually, it's due to Silver's mods. It only really works because the standard AI is too stupid to go wandering when hit, but many difficulty-increasing mods alter AI too.
     
  16. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    Unless they are using rather cheesy AI, which Silver's mods may very well do, then there isn't all that much they can do after being hit by damage from an invisible caster (especially if they are under non-detection). I view going after the rest of the party as a poor answer as the creatures in question wouldn't know that there were other party members around. OTOH it is hard to represent realistic intelligence with a computer in a RPG.
     
  17. ister Gems: 4/31
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    I don't get the point of FoD. People love it, but as far as I can tell it's hardly better than Feeblemind or Polymorph Other. If I want an insta-death spell wouldn't I be better off using one that doesn't replace a Mordy's Sword? Power Word Stun is an instadeath spell at the same level that has no save and affects multiple enemies.

    I understand that
    -Some enemies are immune to the stun effect of PWS. These you may get with FoD, although they are still likely to save.
    -The -2 save makes FoD a little better than Polymorph Other and Feeblemind.
    -The damage when enemies save can disrupt casting which is vaguely useful.

    But these disadvantages strike me as being piddling compared to using up an extremely valuable 7 level spell slot.

    So can a FoD fan explain to me why I should use this spell instead of Polymorph Other?

    And Spook is much better than chromatic orb. My vote for most underated (along with glitterdust). Which reminds me that both spook and chromatic orb are ALSO insta-death spells that are MUCH cheaper than Finger of Death.
     
  18. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    I'm not really all that much of a FoD user so I can't properly explain it. Spook isn't an Instant-Death spell. It only takes an opponent out for a few rounds so isn't really in the same league.

    No it isn't and no it doesn't. Power Word: Stun won't affect enemes with sufficient health so isn't quite as useful in that regard (as you'd use FoD against an enemy with full health if possible). Additionally, it only affects one enemy- same as FoD.
     
  19. ister Gems: 4/31
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    Right on PWS. Sorry about that. It's still damn effective against mages though - usually knocks them out until the battle is over.

    I guess when soloing 3 rounds under spook doesn't necessarily mean death. But with a party any enemy that fails spook is dead.

    Still my main question is why FoD beats Polymorph Oher. Unless someone fires off a dispel magic, polymorph other IS an insta-death spell.
     
  20. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
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    You still have to beat them over the head with a stick so they die till they're dead. :p

    Ehh...I hate FoD too, but atleast, I think that is the reason Polymorph other is a lvl 4 spell and FoD is a lvl 7 spell.

    Incidentally...all this talk of Polymorph other has reminded me of this little gem from a very popular play through of mine from a while ago!!
     
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