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Unable to train certain skills on level up...

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale 2' started by iwdrookie, Feb 3, 2023.

  1. SlickRCBD Gems: 28/31
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    I find that a pure rogue in either IWD game is a waste, and actually inferior to a multiclass in IWD1.
    I do find myself taking more rogue levels than most people advice every now and then simply for skill points, but I agree about starting with only 1 level and multi-classing immediately. I don't usually take another rogue level for several levels.
    Keep in mind that while the rogue has virtually all the skills as class skills, he can't do it all even with 18 INT. Figure at least one skill to offload on somebody else, even if that is just the search skill. If you have a bard and a rogue (and not the same character) definitely let the Bard handle pick pocketing. A bard can also be a good face, even if he can't Intimidate like a rogue.
    One other combo not mentioned is the ranger/rogue, as the ranger also gets hide and move silently as class skills, so it synergizes with sneak attack and some of the rogue damage feats. The monk works just as well.
    A ranger in IWD2 is often disparaged compared to the other warrior types, but a ranger/rogue tends to be quite potent thanks to sneak attack, especially if you get enough rogue levels to start taking rogue feats, but you have to build it around that rather than as a traditional rogue.

    Good rogue multiclasses:
    • Ranger/Rogue
    • Monk/Rogue
    • Wizard/Rogue
    • Sorcerer/Rogue
    • Rogue(1)/Bard(x), possibly occasionally taking up to 3 Rogue levels 5 levels apart for the extra Intimidate skills and sneak attack.
    Decent Combos:
    • Cleric/Rogue
    • Druid/Rogue
    • Fighter/Rogue
    • Barbarian/Rogue
    The problem is that you often don't take many rogue levels, only the ranger or the monk might you make your skill monkey and take more rogue levels.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
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  2. gibberishh Gems: 13/31
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    Hmmm. I hadn't considered Ranger. Note to OP: remember that sneak attacks only work when using rogue-allowed weapons. If you use a weapon that a pure rogue can't use (say as a Fighter/Rogue), sneak attack/backstab will fail.

    I don't mind a pure rogue in IWD1 though I have to agree that beyond a certain point (after they stop advancing in backstab multipliers), the rest of the levels are a waste. You'll get a few extra traps per rest, that's it (which btw is not all bad, traps were invaluable to me in my thief-only playthrough). IWDEE does have the Assassin class which goes up to x7 multiplier.

    In IWD2, I like the path @SlickRCBD has suggested. However, Slick, he's playing with a Bard. He's already restarted the game multiple times so I guess it's not fair to suggest new paths now. This info will be useful for his next playthrough. I was hoping you would give suggestions of when/what to multiclass the bard into. His current thinking is to start taking Sorc or Rogue levels after Bard 11. My suggestion to him is to start multiclassing now if he wants to go down either path, though I'm not a big fan of these choices. Thanks!
     
  3. SlickRCBD Gems: 28/31
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    It depends on what he needs. I'd need to know the rest of the party composition, and what he's deficient in that makes him need to multiclass.
    If you are not having enough skills, take a rogue level immediately and boost the skills that are class skills for the rogue, then the next level take a bard and boost the bard class skills.
    If you need more low-level spells (since taking sorcerer after 11 levels of bard means you will never get high level spells), you can wait until level 11. That might also solve the skill problem by making Knock available.
    It's even possible to take both if you advance both evenly depending on the bard's race, which is another concern. The XP penalty for ignoring favored classes is a serious drawback. If your character is a halfling, only multiclass into the rogue class or you'll have some serious drawbacks. If you are playing a dwarvent bard, you won't want to multiclass to anything but fighter unless you start from level 2 or 3 (bard 2/sorcerer 1 for instance, or Bard 1/rogue 2) and keep the classes within 1 level of each other.

    I can't make suggestions as it depends on the party composition, race, and ability scores.
     
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  4. iwdrookie Gems: 3/31
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    I can see how rogue 1 at the start might have been good as far as skill point boost, but other than that, I felt like (for example) a pure monk would be better than a rogue monk...and a pure wizard would be better than a rogue wizard. It just felt like people take a few levels of rogue because they HAVE to for skill points. So....I wanted to see if I could get enough skill points by spreading the skills out just right so that I would not have to take ANY rogue levels. So far, I think it's working....and frankly, I'm loving my class choices. I've got 4 solid melee fighters who are all unique in some way (one who is a pure cleric, so full array of cleric spells), along with a pure sorc...and all skills seemed to be covered sufficiently (one way or another).

    If I seem to fall short along the way, I'll be the first to admit if it all falls short though. :)

    I wonder if there is a resource out there similar to the one you sent out with all the skill checks for quests....but that gives the search / disarm / open lock requirements for different doors, chests, traps, etc? Something like that would be pretty cool.
     
  5. iwdrookie Gems: 3/31
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    My party is...
    Aasmir Pal(2) / Fighter(x) intimidate
    Half Orc Fighter(4) / Barb(x) wilderness
    Shield Dwarf Monk(1) / Bane Cleric(1) / Fighter(x) open locks
    Gold Dwarf Tempus Cleric(x) concentration
    Human Pal(1) / Sorcerer(x) concentration, spellcraft
    Human Bard(x) search, disarm, diplomacy, bluff, knowledge, alchemy, pickpocket

    So far, I've disarmed all traps, opened all locks, and had no issues. It's early though. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2023
  6. SlickRCBD Gems: 28/31
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    I honestly don't see the benefit to the single cleric of bane level for the fighter, or the monk for that matter. Monks are good for characters that go without armor like mages, and can be useful for druids or clerics thanks to high wisdom if they also have high dex.

    Your bard is putting points into 7 skills, but doesn't get 7 points per level. I'd recommend mixing in rogue levels sparingly just for extra skill points.
    I think the first difficult lock you encounter is in the Ice Temple, on the right-hand side.
    If you do decide to mix in mage levels, I'd suggest going with wizard if you have more INT than CHA.
    In which case you should pick up Knock for the traps you can't bash, and Cat's Grace might help with both opening locks and disarming, although I think the Cleric can also memorize Cat's Grace.

    Pick Pocket seems to be bugged in that no matter how much I buff it, I still have a high chance of failure.
    There are some people impossible to pick pocket without save scumming, but there is some good loot in the Healer's area that doesn't appear to be in that guide for instance.
    Unfortunately, they are virtually impossible to pick pocket without save scumming.

    I've tried cheating and it doesn't help. A thief with 20 dexterity, and 20 points in pick pockets who drank a potion of master thievery, potion of insight, and potion of perception (I used Dale Keeper 2) still seems to fail just as often as a level 2 thief with 5 pick pockets and 16 dex.
     
  7. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Why wouldn’t the Bard get 7 points? 1 extra from human and multiple extra from Int. He gets 4 by class. He should easily receive 7 pts per level….
     
  8. SlickRCBD Gems: 28/31
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    Sorry, did the math wrong. I just reviewed and he has 18 INT, 16CHA not the other way around.
     
  9. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Plus the stat bonus itself allows one to skip a level here and there.
     
  10. iwdrookie Gems: 3/31
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    In a previous thread, Mati suggested the one level of bane for that character...I think it was to make him elligible for some quest or something in Kuldahar.

    Also, that wizard vs sorc idea might be a good idea if I go the caster route. Thanks!

    And appreciate the tip about pickpocketing...would not have guessed that. In any case, save scumming doesn't bother me.

    I think I'm getting ready to enter the Ice Temple, so will see how that lock goes. I did go ahead and take Knock, btw.
     
  11. Mati Gems: 2/31
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    Kuldahar Quest is quite rewarding for Banites, especially those who also have monk level(s).
     
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  12. SlickRCBD Gems: 28/31
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    I'm pretty sure there is something for clerics of every god, but Bane is the most rewarding. For an example, you get some minor advantages and can avoid some needless battles by talking using a cleric of Talos in Chapter 2 (or was it chapter 3? a guide says Chapter 2, but I thought Chapter 1 was the Shanegarne River and Chapter 2 was the Horde Fortress) with the glacier and the Ice Temple.
    Note that there isn't anything you get via talking with a cleric of Talos in the chapter with the Ice Temple that you can't accomplish the same goals another way with either Wilderness lore, a druid or ranger, diplomacy, intimidation, or bluffing. Also note that druids are quite useful outdoors and you spend a lot more time outdoors than in IWD1, especially in the first half of the game (Shanegarne River, outside the Horde Fortress, the final battle of the Horde Fortress, outside the Ice Temple, the Wandering Village and the forest adventure, etc. Be sure to memorize spells like Call Lightning which hits above its weight class but only works outdoors.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2023
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  13. Jamesworkshop Gems: 3/31
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    Paladin or Cleric of Ilmater clicking on the Ilmater statue in Kuldahar graveyard

    Now that the undead in the Glen have been laid to rest, this statue of Ilmater, its hands bound and folded in prayer, watches silently over the graveyard.

    SetGlobal("XP","LOCALS",1)
    AddXPVar("Level_12_Easy",28901) // You have sanctified the Ilmater graveyard for your god.

    Cool that they thought to include this in the game, no reason to run one just for this.
     
  14. Jamesworkshop Gems: 3/31
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    AddXPVar("Level_8_Average",31961) // You taught this remorhaz how to attack.

    CheckStatGT(Protagonist, 14, INT)
    ClassEx(Protagonist, RANGER)
    ClassEx(Protagonist, DRUID)

    Never tried this one, just because something exists in the files doesn't mean it is always active, so could work but might not
     
  15. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    Interesting! I've never managed to get these quests working but neither do I play with Rangers. Much less intelligent ones.

    Another thing pointing to them being unavailable is that all Remorhaz in the area are hostile to begin with and the only possible interaction with them becomes attack or spells. It's also a bit early to get your hands on Dominate Monster you'd need to be able to interact with one of them in any other fashion.
     
  16. Jamesworkshop Gems: 3/31
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    drinking horn quest has no exp reward in wandering village because the quest file reward is written in words rather than digits
     
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