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Turkey and EU

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by BOC, Dec 16, 2004.

  1. Shadowdrinker Gems: 1/31
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    Dendri :Erdogan didnt intend to forbid divorce.I dont know the word for that term,he tried to give the wife/husband to have the right to send his wife/husband to jail through a trial if he/she cheated him/her and millions strongly opposed this idea when he expessed it.Believe me if that didnt happen this law could have passed.I must also say that many european countries had this law,i guess France also had it until 5-6 years ago.and many christian democrats opposed the removal of this law. I dont know what you know about the treatment of women here in Turkey but they have the equal rights with the man and they had the right to vote and to be elected years before many european countries such as England
    Though i cant agree with all my govenment's politics
    i must say they are not an islamic government
    they are like christian democrats i can say they are muslim democrats
     
  2. Pac man Gems: 25/31
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    Of course there's room for negotiating...lower the price of Doner Kebab and we're off to a good start. :D
     
  3. Dendri Gems: 20/31
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    Shadowdrinker - I didnt know the specifics of that law. Only remembered that it had something to do with marriage.
    Now that I do I think its even worse.
    You say it was the Turks who stopped it from passing? To me it looked like the law was prevented because the EU protested against it...

    That a politician who was elected by the majority of turkish population is pursuing such agendas has to count for something.
    Didnt the Turks know what that man stands for? I doubt that.

    You keep pointing at flaws in Europe. I fail to comprehend how our mistakes make yours any better. Or why we should burden ourselves with Turkey when there is obviously much homework left do be done. I dont think its smart to start ignoring our ideals because there are still shortfalls in Europe.

    Sorry, this is not an attack on you. :) But its my opinion that Turkey isnt ready for Europe. And Europe isnt ready for Turkey.
     
  4. Shadowdrinker Gems: 1/31
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    I also think Turkey isnt ready for EU.I must agree we have much reforms to make especially in economical field.
    When the law came to the parliment,the majority of the newspapers started writing against the law,even the ones who were openly supporting the government said it wasnt a wise decision making such a law.I can remember reading some islamist writers saying such laws would take Turkey back to Middle Ages.Many people here thought just like you that the government showed its true face.so they had no support for passing that law.I cant say EU didnt have any influence in this matter but i guess this shows our intentions.
    I didnt give those examples to mock Europe or to right our mistakes but to emphasize that such things can happen democracy is a neverending way.Europe experienced such problems why cant we?and in the end the law didnt pass though the government had the mojority in the parliment
     
  5. Dendri Gems: 20/31
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    Ban of adultery
    and
    Ban of adultery


    In case someone is interested in details. And who intended what.
     
  6. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

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    No.

    Turkey should never, ever be allowed into the EU. My reasons aren't wholly political. I'll not go into them as I might be labelled as a nationalistic pig.
     
  7. Wordplay Gems: 29/31
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    Why, we didn't know you cared. I'm certain most of us here know that you ARE a nationalistic oinker. :grin:

    It still seems that the only (background) reason is that fear of their culture and in a degree of their provess. The latter can be solved by setting economical/juridistical/etc demands to meet, but the other is probably something that can be solved only with time and education.
     
  8. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Just for the numerous & regular human rights violations Turkey shouldn't be allowed in until the situation there improves drastically - but considering how deeply rooted this problem is in their culture, that's not going to happen anytime soon.
     
  9. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    They are on their way, and sadly, all countries committ violations of the human rights on a rather consistent basis. Sweden who is one of the countries which tend to shout the highest about others violations have got quite a few reprimands from the UN about extradiction procedures and recently for sending two terror suspects to Egypt to face quite certain torture on the behest of the CIA.

    Turkey probably have more of a system in it but given time I think it can be worked out, they have come a far far way in the last century and I sincerely believe that there is a wish to go even further.
     
  10. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    The human rights violations in Turkish prisons are on an altogether different scale than anything happening in civilized Europe. Read up on it... I have (I think someone provided some links in one of the threads here a few months ago) and I was appalled.
     
  11. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Oh, I do not doubt that they have some atrocious goings on over there which it is vital they get rid of them if they will ever have any serious talks. I am of the opinion though that the carrot of EU membership is the best way to make Turkey change their views and their system and develop a more humane court system.
     
  12. Wordplay Gems: 29/31
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    I think there you would need to cross with religion. AFAIK, islam is not one of the most human rights respecting religions (...hacking off arms of theft, death penalties for questioning the Koran, oppressed women, insane demands...). I do not know in how leading role it is in their country, but since Turkey is not one of the most modern countries there are... Well, you know how difficult it is to speak sense to people who have tossed their brains out in the name of one "god" or another. :hmm:
     
  13. CĂșchulainn Gems: 28/31
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    You could say the same about the republic of Ireland but no-one opposed them.
     
  14. Baronius

    Baronius Mental harmony dispels the darkness ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Although this thread has been abandoned for a very long time, I would like to react to the above quote, from Iago.

    It's an outstanding nonsense to say that Spain, Italy or Hungary "can hardly be called European".
    To question whether most of those countries are European, or to compare them to Turkey. Italy, Spain, Hungary? E.g. how Hungary can't be European, it has been an organic part of Europe, with common religion and history (e.g. defending whole Europe from Turks for a few hundred years...). As Spain and Italy are well known by basically everyone, I won't give any examples in their case.

    Generally, 90% the countries you listed *are* unambigiously European in many other respects than just geography, one example is Christianity.

    Of course, I tell all this without forming an opinion in the Turkey-EU matter.
     
  15. Kara Ay Gems: 2/31
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    Well,if they are going to reject Turkey due to religion then they should say so....
     
  16. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
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    This is like one of those loong rallies you get at Wimbledon... :D

    Nice thread guys! Though I'm not surprised by the views held by certain members, I must say the many rational arguments being posted by European members here are very impressive! Carry on... :thumb:

    Oh and just so this post is not completely :offtopic: I always thought Turkey was a part of Asia Minor...

    Meh, I say Asia should form a bloc of its own...just imagine!!! India, China, Iran, Turkey, the UAE, Japan, Korea(!!)...BWAAHAHAHAHA! We'd have China and Korea and India to keep up the military end of it and Japan, UAE and China ( :p ) for the economic bits...not to mention all that oil in the Middle East...

    Hehehe, one can dream I guess...

    And I officially think Turkey shouldn't join the EU...not yet. In about a decade? Probably...pending how these reformations progress.

    @Kara: I doubt the EU is as politically suicidal as that mate...its just the odd anti-Islamic nutters...
     
  17. Dengo Gems: 8/31
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    @Faraaz : We have similar dreams. I also want to see my country in an Asian block but our politicians and some people want to enter EU so blindly. Those stupids think they'll be rich when they enter. I believe if we enter the EU there will be no more EU... It will collapse. :lol:

    Sometimes I dream myself as president of TR. If I was president I would completely cut our relationship with EU, IMF and similar organizations at first opportunity, ally with North Korea and Iran. :eek:
     
  18. Kara Ay Gems: 2/31
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    North Korea is going too far but to be with Iran is acceptable...As long as two countries have similar interests they can form a union.... And for people who don't know; there is already an union for Asia countries but it's small and not operational yet...
     
  19. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
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    @Dengo: Ah, but then you would be harboring terrorists and conspiring to kill innocent Americans and then before you know it Istanbul and Ankara will be getting bombed...

    Or probably not...seeing as Turkey doesn't have that much oil, IIRC. Or does it?!?! :eek:

    Heh...

    @Kara: Are you talking about ASEAN?? To the best of my knowledge, all these Asian coalitions are peaceful and economic in nature...what we need is like an Asian version of NATO...you know, someone who can show GWB the finger instead of bending over for him all the time! :grr:
     
  20. Dengo Gems: 8/31
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    @Faraaz : After Iraq is finished this trio would be the new "Axis of Evil". :lol:

    Of course I wasn't serious about these two. It would be the end of Turkey. There are some things that I don't like about these countries' leaders.

    But a NATO like organization would be good in Asia.
     
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