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Tower of Deception for BG2

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by Baronius, Mar 30, 2007.

  1. Valiant Gems: 2/31
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  2. Kulyok Gems: 11/31
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    I had to abandon the final battle, myself:

    - My party had +3 weapons, Melf's minute meteors, lots of fireballs/wands/necklace of missiles, and a wand of resurrection to boot. 10-13 level. We still couldn't kill the guardian. Three Breach spells didn't help, either.

    - None of my characters was able to equip the blade. Even a good-aligned ranger with Int 10 and Str 18/something couldn't.

    So, yeah. Graphics/movie/new areas - awesome. I wish the dialogue was reworked and proofread - then it would've been a truly amazing mod.
     
  3. Die_Bad_Guys Gems: 4/31
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    If the final boss didnt have seemingly-infinite stoneskins it would be much more managable.
     
  4. Baronius

    Baronius Mental harmony dispels the darkness ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Like in BG1, some mods introduce enemies that are much more powerful than the protagonist. The Tower is a dangerous place, so it's no wonder that the Guardian had more stoneskins than the usual BG2 loser mage.

    I don't see what's your problem, especially because a few posts back you said you couldn't break the shard after killing the guardian. Which means you've won the battle, and if so, why to complain about how "manageable" it is? I'm sure this isn't the hardest battle among the mods you use (or if so, you don't use difficult mods). Just wondering.
     
  5. Valiant Gems: 2/31
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    To Kulyok: my party consist of Minsc (Lilarcor equipped), PC (Fallen Paladin, Crasomyr equipped), Edwin, Jaheira, Valygar and Viconia, and I have killed Guardian in a half of a minute. Note that she cast PFNW and PFMW to herself. Dispel this, cast a Haste on your party and summon at least one fire elemental just to make her busy, while your fighters beat her up, and she´ll be dead in no time... Not a big deal.

    Yes, the BLADE is very special weapon ,and because in SoA it is one of few weapons that have stats +5 (slightly overpovered), only strongest fighers, and I mean only fighters can wield it. I made it basically for fighters, as a replacement for Crasomyr, which can be wielded only by Paladins. That would be all...

    BTW, as I didn´t find anyone else who´s native english speaker and is willing to proofread it for me, except Rabain (guy that translated and corrected my mod), dialogs will stay as they are now. Sorry for that. My options are limited.
     
  6. Luiz Gems: 5/31
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    I've heard good things about this mod and have it installed for my next playthrough.

    As a part-time grammar-nazi I might be able to offer assistance with comprehensive proof-reading. Give me a week or so to try the mod properly and I'll get back to you.

    (I appreciate the difficulties faced writing mods in a language other than one's native tongue, but options need not stay limited forever, Valiant. ;) )
     
  7. Valiant Gems: 2/31
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    Tower Of Deception v2 has been released. Visit BWL for more infos...

    Luiz: you´re right, maybe, but as I said only Rabain was willing to proofread it for me. Others were just criticising me, but not helping me at all. Except you.
     
  8. Kulyok Gems: 11/31
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    It's not only proofreading, it's, as I said, editing and reworking. The following is my opinion only, but I think the mod would only win if these were corrected:

    - the quest-giver uses a copy-paste Firkraag dialogue most of the time;
    - the story of the module that's written in the mod's readme/description is great, but the player isn't provided with it in the mod - he's only given a scrap of information by one of the guys trapped here. I'd enhance the dialogue - expand the dialogue for the demon, for the guardian of the sword, and for the trapped guy; as well, I'd rewrite the dialogue for the quest-giver;
    - typos as such are quite few - but, yes, if Luiz helps, that'd be great;
    - several things really stand out as mod content: I think if the sword was toned down to +4 enchantment, 2 spells per round were dropped, the lightning machine emitted lightning with less frequency(once per round, for example), it would be more in line with the rest of the game. As well, a AD&D expert may correct me, but as far as I remember, lizard shamans can't be capable of casting the Time Stop - I am not sure it makes sense to me.

    As of now, I can tell people: "Yes, it looks nice, it has a few new areas, try it at least once". But I'd like to be able to say with a clear heart: "It is very interesting, and a must-install mod. You'll keep playing it again and again".

    As an example, BWL: Return to Candelight has undergone some great changes(dialogue was proofread extensively, there were some small rewrites, battles were toned down), and, as far as I am aware, it has become much better.
     
  9. Valiant Gems: 2/31
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    To Kulyok: Although I´ve never play BG2 with your Xan NPC mod, now I think I will give him a try. Then I´ll be able to tell you if you´re the right person for writing these arguments. BTW, we were discussing this on PPG forum, so don´t bring it here again, please. If you want, post it on the mod´s forum, not here.

    First of all, you should imagine that the mod was developed with only one person. So it´s clearly impossible to make everything perfectly.

    Dialogs - if you consider I´m not a native english speaker, logically it will lead to borrowing some lines from other dialogs, as I´m not able to create all by my own. So far I don´t see anything wrong in it. And of course, when I asked for help in this, no one answered...

    Story - if most of the main plot is in readme, there´s no reason to repeat it in the mod´s dialogs again, I think. Scrap of informations that are given to the player is enough. So no significant change will happen here.

    Sword - this is my own sword, and I like it as it is now. Basically I´m not forcing anyone to use it if no one likes it. Just drop it on the ground as soon as you´re teleported into Ustrain´ s bedroom and that´s it. Won´t modify it.

    Lizard shamans - they are from original BG2:ToB resources, just check them. If they are bad-written in original game, that´s not my fault.

    About lightning machine - it is so easy to cheat it that there´s no need to change it!! But perhaps I will increase the time of producing all that lightnings (only thing I will, in fact).

    Conclusion - if I find someone that will be wiling to rewrite the dialogs, I´ll implement it into the next version. But I, myself, can´t. Out of ideas.
     
  10. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    The Xan mod is well written, IIRC. Stay calm there, Valiant, the criticism Kulyok is offering is constructive. He's saying what he said so you can sort it to improve the mod, rather than to insult you. ;)

    We understand it will be difficult as English isn't your first language. Borrowing dialogue is ok to get the first version of the mod out, as this allows you to get feedback sooner. However, isn't part of the point of later versions to improve on the first? You have something to work on so even without someone else writing, it should be easier to improve on what you already have.

    You don't need to restate everything in the readme, but remember that some of us enjoy roleplaying our characters. In the same way that we don't pre-buff if our characters don't know there's an encounter coming up, we don't like our characters acting on imformation they haven't been told.

    No-one will force you if you don't want to, but remember that a good modder is one that is open to feedback (this includes the negative points).

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall ever seeing a lizard shaman ever casting a 9th level spell in the original game. Hmm.

    In conclusion, Kulyok and any other who has commented on your mod isn't trying to make you feel bad- they are giving suggestions to help you improve. If you wish to ignore the advice, that is your decision, but remember that if lots of people end up saying the same thing, then that may well actually be the better way to go.
     
  11. Valiant Gems: 2/31
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    Very well then, off to go now. Another and AFAIK area artist (that is not borrowing previously posted or original art) is gone (from this forum). Take care.
     
  12. Kulyok Gems: 11/31
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    @Valiant: if you seriously want a hand in rewriting dialogues, let me know. That is, if you'll consent to implement my changes.
     
  13. Valiant Gems: 2/31
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    [​IMG]
    Glad to hear it.

    BAZLIZ02.CRE is the original file. Take a look on it.
     
  14. cmorgan Gems: 6/31
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    Just a quick note here - Kulyok is not a native english speaker either - though you cannot tell from her dialogue. She is also an extremely experienced modder. She has strong opinions, and the willingness to voice them; if she is volunteering to help playtest or deal with balance issues, you are getting the equivalent of a professional independent contractor to assist. I would definitely consider getting her involved.

    Luiz is an experienced modder, and playtests with good criticism, if he is availbale, steam him too.


    I would volunteer myself, but am unfortunately booked for the forseeable fure.
     
  15. -David_W- Gems: 3/31
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    It's an unused file in ToB - something they were going to put in Abazigal's lair and then decided to pull, I think. I'd toyed with reintroducing it, but it looks like I got beaten to it.
     
  16. Baronius

    Baronius Mental harmony dispels the darkness ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Please forgive Valiant for his too big sensitivity to criticism. I suppose he misinterpreted the constructive criticism, which may be partly due to language issues as well. I remember I was the same stubborn and sensitive modder when I entered IE modding. I'm sure that the suggestions you've told here are all intended to improve the mod, and as long as Valiant's time allows it, I'm sure he will try to implement the ones he agrees with, and perhaps will consider even those that he refuses for the time being. He is usually extremely busy (RL), and the lot of suggestions here might have reached him as a thunderstorm. And when you feel modding would be a burden, it's frustrating if you force yourself to do it.
     
  17. Valiant Gems: 2/31
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    Baronius is right, guys, my apologies to all I could insult in any way. Generaly it wasn´t due to any language issues, I assure you, or due to any misinterpreted things. I understood everything without any problems. Real problem was somewhere else. I have discussed this with Kulyok via PM, so everything is ok now. As it always should be.

    Once more, sorry for that.
     
  18. cmorgan Gems: 6/31
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    heck, we all care deeply, and we all go off the deep end - we're all pretty driven people, or else we wouldn't be trying to fix up and add to the game :) !
     
  19. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    No offense taken Valiant- good luck with improving your mod.
     
  20. Valiant Gems: 2/31
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    @Luiz: I´ve received some new modtexts and dialogs from Kulyok, so if you still willing to proofread it for me, I can send them to you via mail. Just send me your email address. I trust Kulyok it´s grammaticaly correct, but I hope it won´t be mistake if you take a look on them. Just from grammatical aspect. Hope Kulyok won´t mind this... :)
     
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