To live forever

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Erm, I don't recall you making an analogy about numbers either, but anyways -

I think that infinity is only a theorectical number that just cannot be reached.

If immortality is not a life, then immortality does not equate to living forever. Which seems to be a self-contradiction, if only in definition.

 

Okay, define life, does it have an end or not?

 

Actually.

The word "infinite" means the same as "in-definite". Infinite doesn't equal some so crazy amount of something that nothing in the universe can't count it. It is a simple name for a concept of a figure that is unknown. Something between 1 - 10 is not infinite, for you know where it begins and where it ends, there're 10 possibilities. But something that lacks the other side of the figure, either the "end" or the "beginning" or both (either 1 - x, or x - 10, or x - x) is infinite because the figure could be infinitely large and long to either side.

Edit:

Morgoth: Fetch a simple high-school level biology book from somewhere, your local library for example. I just wrote a huge explanation, whereafter I realised I made no sense even to myself. It's rather complicated, and I've so little left of all that information left in me to start explaining anything rationally. Suffice to say, definition of life is a real big question and something that they are actively searching an answer to.

As far as "does it have an end or not" goes. I'd say it's not a matter of "if", but "when".

[ April 25, 2003, 10:48: Message edited by: Foradasthar ]

 

Life is independent and ordered reproduction of adaptable heritable programs, utilizing energy sources from the surroundings.

But since you live forever you don't need offspring and immortality overwrites adaptability and utilizing energy from the surroundigs somewhat. Depends on the cell replication within the immortal body.

So in a way Morgoth can be right. Morgoth is right in a sense that a bycycle isn't per definition a car but they are both means of transportation. Immortal beeings are not per definition life but they are both means of ordered interaction with the universe.

Good thinking Morgoth, I never thought of that one.

[ April 25, 2003, 13:07: Message edited by: Nobleman ]

 

I think I would want to love forever, if it would get too sucky I am sure I would be able to kill myself. I wouldnt want to be invulnearable. Just stop the aging would be fine by me.

 

Okay. "Infinity" was probably the wrong word. But I think I meant "the largest number" when I made the analogy.

Nobleman - that is an interesting point. Although if an immortal person could be killed, I think that he/she would want offspring if she wanted immortality in the sense of progeny. After all, in all those years of living, there are chances, even if more minute by each year, of an immortal dying.

 

I didn't mean that you couldn't or shouldn't use the word "infinite" for describing "forever". Afterall, if I remember correct that's what I did further back in this thread. I just said that to clear things up on that little debate of yours about the actual meaning of infinity.

 

Acording to Sokol, to live means to actively exist from birth to death (and possibly reproducting).

I agree, it won't be a *life*. We'd have to use another word. But it's only a matter of words. To me, life means thinking, creating, learning, experiencing... You can do this when immortal. Apart from this universe is changing, so you are geting new objects "of amusement" constantly.

BTW, I want to bring another topic. Granted you live forever, what do you thing of possible end of the cosmos (complete termination of space)? Acording either to science or christian religion the world is here not forever.

[ April 25, 2003, 23:02: Message edited by: ArrynMorgerim ]

 

Actually, according to science, the world is here forever. Our universe will of course become cold and dead until even atoms break apart, effectively fading into nothingness. But that's not the end. As this "world" was born, so will others be born. If you are immortal, you will experience new worlds dying and being born all the time, forever. Not just see the end of this one and then drift on in nonexistence.

 

Actually, I think both are existing scientific theories concerning the universe. And there are lot's of others. But they're only theories, if I remember my physics class correctly.

 

I don´t really agree with that, I think that the atoms will become energy, back to what it´s made of..
This energy will then become matter, and the cycle is complete..

An immortal person can´t be killed, else he be mortal

 

If i were to live forever, it would have to be with some one that itruely and deeply love... i could then use the cliche 'that our love shall last forever'

 

Theories they may be. But the theory about matter and antimatter being born all around us all the time has just about been proven IIRC. How this matter is being created is anyone's guess. But it seems certain enough that that is indeed the case. The Big Bang, therefore, was not just some incredible coincidence. It was a very predictable event that had to happen as the fluctiations in the matter-antimatter birth would inevitably allow it at some point. And just for that reason, it will happen again.

Edit:

Morgoth:

Yes, while the atoms break apart, they will indeed become energy. But even if the "space" of space was limited, the energy would still be shattered so evenly around the universe that it might as well not exist. Besides, after enough time even that energy will dissipate out of existence. It's the law of entrophy, where all the time energy is being lost, but not regained. As for matter being created, creating matter needs much more energy than the same matter would release upon being destroyed. So it's impossible for the same energy to just change form, create and uncreate all the time while never losing any of its potential.

[ April 26, 2003, 12:43: Message edited by: Foradasthar ]

 

Morgoth - immortal can also be interpreted as able to live forever. I think invulnerable would be the word for not being able to die.

So to "live forever" either means just not dying of old age, or not being able to be killed. Either way.

 

There is a theory of big collapse (the gravitation of the space will sto its spreading and it will collapse in singularity). Well if you are immortal, what will you do when your space collapses into a simple point? You would have to find your way "out of the space"...

Even if you are indestructible, invulnerable and ever-lasting, can you last when everything other is destroyed?

 

I wouldn't want to live for ever. What would life be without dying? Sort of like how you can't have beauty with out ugly, because you need something to compare it too, or you need to take a flashlight in the dark to see the light, or you need silience to say a word, or you need good for evil.....etc?
Besides, I'm sometimes curious on what death is like.

 

@ArrynMorgerim

There was a theory like that, yes. But it was discovered a while back that the critical amount of mass that is required to make such a thing happen does not exist. Instead, the gravitational pull is too weak compared to the speed that the matter is escaping with from the centrepoint. Which means that the universe will expand forever, unless something strange comes in the way.

 

Yeah, but I meant to point out the thing with an immortal's inavoidable death in this event. Think of it: would he stil live? (well he shouldn't be able in the singularity...)

 

Aside from the boundaries of physics, wouldn't there be psychological problems too? The psychology of the human being, wasn't, at least in my view, created to sustain an endless life.

 

The form we have now consists of two things the physical body and the soul which is the immortal part of our being.
So the phycological part should not be so troubling since according to the above theory the soul which mainly affect the phycological aspect of our lives is immortal.