Thinking about a new Comp

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Ah, ok.

Chandos,
thanks for pointing out the warranty to me. I looked up some stats and Barracudas are indeed a wee bit faster than the rest. I now consider buying a Barracuda as a compromise between not being able to afford Raptors while still buying fast components.

Speaking of speed - a couple of quick questions on RAM:
My basic choice of mainboard is generally pretty much settled. Brands I have in mind are ASUS, Abit and MSI. Chipset will be either x38 or x48 because later I want to try overclock my computer a wee bit for better performance, and both chip sets as 'enthusiast' chip sets offer that growth potential. What's left to think about is the RAM:

• I understand that DDR-3 is faster than DDR-2. It is also more expensive. Is the difference in performance worth the extra money?
• Do I need to use identical pairs of RAM with either DDR-2 or DDR-3? Means: Can I just buy 2 GB of brand A and then add 2 more of Brand B and four more of Brand C? Would that depend on the MoBo?
• Will my computer be ok with 2GB RAM initially?
• Is brand important in RAM? If so, what brands offer a good quality?

 

DDR3 has higher latencies than DDR2, so to see a difference in performance, you really need to get fast RAM. I've got 2 sticks of DDR3 1333, which for me is fine...however, I would get faster RAM once DDR3 prices drop.
As for mixing brands, they will work together, but you're going to take a hit on performance if the speed and latency aren't the same, so I wouldn't recommend it...it's always best to buy "matched pairs".

IMO Corsair (that's all I use), Crucial, and Kingston are the best quality brands. Kingston makes a mean value stick of RAM, while Corsair is bent on speed and reliability.

 

No. Not where I live anyway, atleast twice the price for a few percent better performance in the best case scenario...

If you're running XP, most likely. If you're running Vista, it depends on what you'll be using the computer for.

 

Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad?

Again, thanks for all the feedback ​

As for amount of memory, I'm desperately trying to reduce the expense for my new computer (probably, as I know myself) to spend the money so 'saved' on a better graphics card, nicer case (LianLi PC-A70B black ) or ...

I did a little research, and from what I read in the comparison to DDR2, DDR-3 doesn't yet yield a significant advantage. That is so because the 1333MHz FSB is the bandwith bottleneck. I also read that only with the Intel Nehalem chips, who'll have memory management, that will be overcome. This is said to not be an issue with the newer AMD CPUs (Athlon 64 and Opteron). Interesting.

Afterthoughts:​

My financial realities have necessitated a few readjustments, at the expense of bragging rights, and I am pondering whether for my purposes (gaming; if not then I'm usually running a number of programs simultaneously) a Core 2 Duo or a Core 2 Quad is the better choice. I want to go for one of the 45nm variants in either case. I had to accept that undeniably the Core 2 Duo is cheaper for clock speed delivered I expect prices for the Quads to go down after the mysterious Nehalem chips come out, no? A lower end Quad doesn't cost all that much more than a higher end Duo ... the Core2 Duo E8400 2x3.0GHz BOX 6MB is priced at 144,89 € - whereas the Core 2 Quad Q6600 boxed G0 (SLACR) sells at 152,90 €. That difference in price is neglectable. But what about performance?

Anyway, the cheapest configuration I have gathered so far is this one:

Arriving at 952 €. I have dropped the Barracuda for a Samsung one that has a 16MB cache (with the thought that at that price I could get myself a second one rather easily, taking advantage of RAID 0, or get myself something really fast later). Also, sticking with XP for starters and getting Vista later would cut another some 90 € but give me some more flexibility with the components.

Compared with my current one I'd get two processor cores running at the same speed as my Athlon XP 3000+, twice the amount of faster RAM, a generally faster system with SATA instead of IDE, and certainly a quieter one, with a significantly better graphics card (jump from AGP to PCI-E, and three generations of graphics cards) - and all in a much nicer package (my old tower is of the grey variety, 10 years old and I always cut myself when working on its intestines).

 

For the memory take 2x2 gig to keep two slots free. 4gig is minimal for 54 it. later you can go to 4x2.

 

It is interesting to watch the price development. Right now my computer has just got a little cheaper. Having to wait does help after all. My old MoBo choice is no longer available and I am forced to change. I'll now choose a slightly cheaper one:

~ 920 €. I think that's a sweet system. But I'll probably get that LianLi server case and a slighly better graphics card and a boxed CPU (Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300) for the warranty , well, and the speed.

I scheduled purchase for late October, so changes may still occur based on changing availability and pricing of components, and a potential tax refund In case of the latter it'll be two 250GB Barracudas and a 500GB backup drive Raid 0!

 

Not a very big fan of LianLi cases myself...they just don't look good to me.

If you have a surplus of cash, check this baby out. That's the case I have, and it's awesome. The tool-less features is has are the best I've ever seen, it's sturdy as hell, and it's big enough for an upgrader to go wild...oh, and not to mention that it looks friggin' sweet!

 

That's a nice case, Kit. Cooler Master makes great stuff. But for that much money I would rather go with this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133056

I agree with you on LianLi cases - they are overpriced and have little in the way of features.

Ragusa - That's not much real estate in that HD. For a couple dollars more you get way more space.

I just got this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133154

It's waiting down in my living room for me to assemble it. It is missing the removeable main board tray and the side cooling fan of its larger brother. Also, the external USB ports are not as well postitioned on mine, but nothing too difficult either. But it was 100.00 less with the free shipping and MIR promo...

 

Kitrax,
it's a midi tower - way too small What I want is a tall, spacey, black box for lots of stuff to fit in, air included. I want it to look monolithic It has to be quiet. Sound dampening on the case itself is nice, but not essential. I'd rather have a cooler case. Tool-less features are great, just like sound dampers for the HDDs. I don't really want any gadgets like case lighting or some other nonsense. I might buy some extra quiet fans at a later time. I want a good airflow because I want my CPU to last.

So what I have in mind is something this (which are two hot contenders):

• LIAN LI PC-A70B Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower
• LIAN LI PC-A71B Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower

The primary advantage of the LianLi cases is their looks. Their interior is well thought out, but conservative. Other, more fashionable towers, like the Thermaltake Armor series, are in comparison really innovative. I would like a hybrid of the two - like a larger Thermaltake Armor tower with all its features but the looks of the LianLi A71 ... but find one, and at a reasonable price.

Chandos,
that's a very nice case, and it's cheaper too. I seriously take it into consideration as my third option, or conssidering my budget, as my primary one. If they only had a non-transparent side ... but then, it allows to monitor fan function and dust build-up. You made a good point about the HDD. It is more sensible to buy the larger one first, and to buy two smaller, faster ones about half in size for RAID 0 later.

Besides, reading out my MoBo's stats I saw that the P5Q-E has two PCI-E 16x, but it would support crossfire technology, @ x8 link. The (more expensive) Asus P5E Deluxe has two PCI-E @ 16x and crossfire support. What does that mean? Is it thus a better motherboard because it would support two cards better? Or is that just incomplete information on the product sheet?

 

A second GPU slot does not hurt. Both brand are trying to let cards of different generation work whit each other. Or to use on of the cards for physics. So why not. If the boast come trough, good, if not no great loss.

A case needs a window. You really want to look at your stuff, like I do. It is so nice to use different lights to glow on the motherboard. But if you want an acrylic case, they are hell to work whit. Nothing fits perfectly.

The armor also has a JR atx version.

 

Kitrax,
I change my mind and say that your suggestion indeed is a sweet case and yet another attractive option - in this form. If it only was a little blacker...

Merlanni,
right now I still use my eleven years old grey tower, butt ugly, rock solid, noisy, when I rework its intestines I cut myself.

Now, with my new system, I want to go for a respectable, understated computer that doesn't attract too much attention And I want a case that's stable and will last for another decade. I just found another favourite of mine: The Antec P182 (read review and another review), which is, even though it is just a puny midi tower, about my idea of how a tower ought to look like. From what I read in the review the P182 has tool less mounting. It is clearly more attractive to me than the more expensive LianLi models. I don't particularly fancy LianLi, they just happen to have a look that I like. I am pretty conservative: Form follows function. Function before fashion. Funny blinking LEDs and lighted fans serve no function; they only eat power and annoy me. I don't want to have a computer that blinks like the sign of a brothel. I want to sit there and hear people say things like "Is it on? I don't hear it." and especially "Now that was fast!"

 

Yeah, I really like the black version...unfortunately it came out soon after I built my system...

As for the Antec P182, that was actually my #2 choice, but I decided to go with the CoolerMaster because it had thicker body panels (with acoustic foam on both panels), both side panels detach with a single pull of a lever, it has the best tool-less drive management I've ever seen, 4 120mm fans, a front door that can swing open to the left or the right (no tools required), the power/reset/4 USB/audio/FireWire/eSATA panel is on the top of the case (I hate when the mount the front panel ports on the bottom of the case), and it makes cable management a breeze.
Also, after getting to handle the Antec P182 in person, I didn't get the impression that it was as sturdy as it looks on paper. I'd still suggest it to others, but only the best for me...

Here's a pic of how my computer desk looks. Notice how large the CoolerMaster case really is. I can upload more pics of the case if you'd like to get a better look at it.

 

That's a neat, clean setup, Kit. I'd post a pic of mine also, but I would have to clear off all the empty beer bottles....

 

That pic was taken the day after my system was complete. I had dozens of boxes, manuals, cables, and misc. parts from all the componets lying around, so my wife made me clean my office...I decided to take a picture of it because I knew it would never be that clean again...and so far, I've been right.

 

I eat and live behind it. My tv stands on a swivel foot so I can watch tv and game. At the moment I am looking at a NFL preseason game. My cats also live around it.

 

A thing that's been bugging me again, is RAM choice. I read that RAM runs faster when it is in tune with the CPU's FSB. Anyone who can explain that?

 

Basically, the faster the better. Multipliers are there to get it to "tune in" with the FSB. I have previously posted about this here. So a quick search should give some detailed information (I am lazy).

Edit:

Found one post, http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showthread.php?p=582490. This was not the one I was referring to though, maybe it was on some other forum then.

 

I'm just wondering what MoBo/chipset I ought to take. Now that my motherboard of choice is gone, I have to find a new one - and what I see in x38 and x48 is not to get below 150 Euro. I don't really see a point in choosing a DDR-3 board, except someone manages to persuade me that with the right board and RAM my planned Intel® Core 2 Quad Q9300 will be spectacularly faster than with DDR-2. The P45 boards, even from Asus, are considerably cheaper than those with 'enthusiast chipsets'. I suspect I won't go and madly over clock my computer (but then, you never know) ... but I might end up having two graphics cards at some later time, making PCI-E 2.0 more attractive. So, will P45 do for me just fine (and save me some 50 Euro that I can put ... for instance in my graphics card)?

And does anyone have experience with Asus' EPU-6 energy saving chipset?

 

Well, at this point, getting a mobo with DDR3 future-proofing in a way. While DDR3 hasn't reached its full potential...it *will*, and when it does, and prices fall, you'll already have a mobo that supports it.

If that doesn't satisfy you, then IIRC, there are boards out there that have two slots for DDR2 and two for DDR3.

As for EPU, my Maximus Extreme has it, but I don't have a product like Kill A Watt to monitor how much, if any, power is being saved. But they claim that it can save over 80% energy depending on CPU usage. However, I think you have to have some of ASUS' junk-ware installed and running in the background for EPU to be functional.

 

Its all to do with not having the CPU have to wait for the memory as far as I know.

Think of it this way - you have two merry go rounds, both rotating, with one person on each. If they rotate at the same speed, those two people can talk far more often than if they rotate at different speeds. Or, if one is running at a multiplier of the other (eg 1 wheel does 2 revolutions every time the other does 1), then they can still communicate effectively.

I remember experimenting with this when I had an Athlon XP. Its FSB was 266Mhz, and I didnt notice a performance improvement from dropping the RAM clock from 333MHz to 266Mhz. Anyway, perhaps there was another bottleneck.

Basically, dont let the idea of synchronous clocks run your life, but it can help. Also I think buffering can lessen the impact of asynchronous clocks.