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The NBA Playoffs...

Discussion in 'Colosseum' started by Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. dogsoldier Gems: 7/31
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    ^ Rose is like a number of the younger players in the league today who are very reliant on their intense athleticism (Rose has some relative skill, but his first-step, vertical leap, side-to-side movement, and endurance were really impressive). He's never been seriously injured before, and to a player who relies so immensely on his athleticism, I can only assume it really affects his confidence.

    From what I've seen it takes guys with serious injuries about a season of PLAYING (after their recovery and rehab) to truly regain their form. I think he just needs to come back and prepare intellectually to be doubted, criticized, and be called a "has-been" for the next year. The longer he puts it off, the longer it'll be until he gets it back. It seems like he wants to wait until he's back to 100% and then come back. I don't see how that is going to happen from rehab, workouts, and scrimmages against the current Bulls guards. I think he just needs to slog it out, in GAMES, and focus on getting faster, better, and stronger. I don't see how he can even think about being back at 100% until he's balling full-court against the likes of Deron Williams, Chris Paul, and Rajon Rondo again.
     
  2. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Miami looked rusty and out of sorts today. The Bulls stole the one they had to have to make this interesting.
     
  3. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I couldn't agree more. If he thinks if he just waits it out that he can come back and return to MVP form near immediately, he's kidding himself. Heck, right now he's not even in game shape. I don't think he's in any position to carry this Bulls team right now. But I do think he is in a position to help his team right now. I think he can probably give you 15-20 good minutes right now.
     
  4. dogsoldier Gems: 7/31
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    I was surprised that of all the players out there who stole a vote from LeBron, it was Carmelo! What, the volume shooter?!? Not Durant, who had the best season of his career, Bryant, who basically willed the Lakers into the play-offs, or Paul, who quarterbacked the Clippers to their best record in history?

    One has to remember Jordan played in a league with a number of rue superstars who will go down as the best players to have ever played their position, some of whom, themselves, are legitimately in conversation as amongst the best players in history. Jordan came in the league in '84, while Dr J retired in '86 (considered one of the top small forwards in history, which, incidentally, is the same position Jordan played when he first came into the league), Kareem retired in '89 (one of the top 3 centers in history), Magic retired in '91 (as possibly the best, or at least a top 3, point-guard), Bird in '92 (only a few years ago he was widely considered the best small forward in history, though LeBron seems likely to have usurped that title), Kevin McHale in '93 (one of the top power forwards in history), Isiah Thomas in '94 (certainly a top 10 point-guard, though I don't think I'd put him in the top 5), etc. Karl Malone's career numbers are incredible and he is widely considered the best power-forward to play the game, and John Stockton's career numbers, while similarly outstanding, belay the fact he was never seriously considered for a MVP award during the entirety of his career (despite being widely considered one of the top 5 point-guards to have ever played the game). Dominique Wilkins gave Jordan a run every night in terms of the high-light reels as well as for the scoring title, and I haven't even mentioned Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Clyde Drexler, and Patrick Ewing (!)--all of whom are legitimate Hall of Famers, in consideration of the best players to have played their positions (I don't think anyone could argue there has been a better 6'5" power-forward in the history of the league than Barkley), and who were amongst the best players in history for their respective franchises. Nor have I mentioned Scottie Pippen, who of course is widely regarded one of the top players in the history of the league himself. The 90s saw the likes of Shaquille O'Neal, Grant Hill, Dikembe Mutumbo, Chris Webber, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Danny Manning, Alonzo Mourning, Derrick Coleman, Gary Payton, Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond, Glen Rice, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson, Shawn Kemp, and Tim Duncan come on the scene. I now one could argue a lot of these guys were maybe better known for things off the court than their on-the-court accolades, but one can't argue that Shaq, for instance, isn't one of the best centers ever, or that Kidd isn't one of the best point-guards ever (I remember reading a scouting report on him that indicated as a high-school sophomore he was good enough to play in the NBA!), or Tim Duncan...

    In my humble opinion, Jordan played against a wide crop of more competitive faces and names for his awards than LeBron has. I'm not sure how many players out of the league as it exists right now are destined to be considered amongst the all-time best. Kobe, Tim Duncan, Jason Kidd, and Steve Nash almost certainly, Kevin Durant probably, Dwayne Wade probably, probably Rose (assuming he salvages his career), Garnett and Pierce almost certainly...but I'm not sure who else...
     
  5. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Dirk Nowitzki a.k.a. Superstar, MVP and World Champion. Everyone seems to forget Dirk in the equation.
     
  6. dogsoldier Gems: 7/31
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    Okay, so here we are. (I'm figuring the Pacers will beat the Knicks so they'll move on).

    That gives us a Pacers-Heat Eastern Conference Finals, which is pretty much what I would have probably predicted before the play-offs started.

    I am surprised by the Western Conference Finals. San Antonio versus Memphis? (I would have picked at least the Thunder to be in the Western Finals before the play-offs started, though I noticed how well San Antonio played several months before the playoffs started). This is a series that will feature smart, tough, veteran players playing physical and gritty ball. Lots of defense, and probably a lot of low-post offense. This is the series I'm most excited by.

    What I find interesting is that I think all three of the contenders match up in very interesting ways against the Heat. Other than wherever LeBron James plays on the court, I don't see the Heat having a pronounced, routine advantage against any one of these other teams at the other positions.
     
  7. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I sort of agree, except that I don't want to discount the greatest-player-on-the-planet factor for LeBron. I just think that he raises the level of everyone he plays with because of how darned good he is. Ray Allen gets more open shots, Dwyane Wade needs to do less (which is a good thing considering how bad his knee is), Bosh gets multiple open looks, Chalmers and Battier get to take the shots that they love to take with less defense, etc.

    It's just crazy what his impact is. Plus, on defense, you've always got the feeling that he;s going to pounce on you out of nowhere.

    I'm rooting for Memphis, just as a change of pace.
     
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  8. dogsoldier Gems: 7/31
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    Yeah, you are right about the Heat. Cleveland could CLAIM they were doing it, but this Heat team was truly constructed out of players that complemented LeBron's talents--which includes more than just role-players (which is what the Cavs seemed to want to do--put LeBron out there with 4 [relatively cheap] role-players). A championship level team is team that can attack offensively and aggressively defend all the time, not just when their best player is in the game.

    And I'm on the Memphis bandwagon, too. Though I'm not sure they actually have enough firepower to consistently score against San Antonio's pressure, when SA really gets it ratcheted up.
     
  9. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Well, game 1 was probably pretty disconcerting for the Grizz. The Spurs pretty much scored at will and Memphis is really going to need to tighten up to make this interesting. I find it odd that the Western Conference Finals are going to have two games done before the East plays its first.


    Edit: I guess the Grizz can say that the Spurs just held serve in the first game, like the Clippers did against them, etc., but I hesitate to compare the Spurs to the Clippers. I think the Grizz need to get an early one in San Antonion which pretty much leaves, y'know, tomorrow's game.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  10. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I also thought it was odd that the West was going to play 2 games before the east played their 1st. For an older team like the Spurs that could be a sizable advantage if they get several days of rest before the finals.

    One statistic I saw is that the Grizzlies have lost the first game of each of their series up to this point, so regardless of whether you lose by 2 or 22, it's still just one loss. I'm just not convinced that the Grizzlies are in the same league as the Spurs. Yes, they beat the Thunder, but that was without Westbrook. Durant was still very good, but he was a one-man show in that series. My gut feeling is that the Grizzlies just aren't as good as the Spurs - I can see it being a short series.

    As for the east, I felt the playoffs were a mere formality. I didn't see anyone beating the Heat out of the east. I expect the Heat to roll over the Pacers - but I would have expected exactly the same thing if they played the Knicks, so that's not a condemnation of the Pacers as much as it is acknowledging how good the Heat are.
     
  11. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I actually think the Heat would have an easier time with the Knicks than the Pacers, only because the Pacers at least play defense every game. The Knicks, not so much.

    I think the Grizz need to make a concerted effort to work Gasol and Randolph down low and put pressure on Splitter and Duncan. Splitter can't control his fouling all that well and Timmy is a step or two slower. Plus, when the Spurs play Diaw at 4 or 5, the Grizz MUST pound him down low. I just didn't see that in game 1 and Hollins isn't a stupid, coach, so I don't know what I am missing.

    If it were Vinny del Negro, I would absolutely believe that he was dumb enough not to do the obvious thing.
     
  12. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Well, now I know why it isn't all that odd for the west to play two games before the east plays the first. The Grizzlies and Spurs won't play game 3 until Saturday. So the east has time to catch up. But really? I mean I know they get better money on advertisements on the weekends, but a four day delay between games 2 and 3?
     
  13. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    They have to let the East castch up time-wise. If the Spurs would sweep and the East went 7 games, the Spurs could sit for a week. The four day delay is the lesser evil. I'm sure the TV time slot is worth more as well, but there is no way hat would be the major reason behind the decision. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Well it seems that way - they wanted to start the west up early since both teams were finished, to get a Sunday time slot for game 1. Then just play 1 game all week, to get another weekend game. Honestly, if it wasn't for TV scheduling purposes, there's be no reason to play 2 games before the east played their 1st, especially since Game 1 was just 2 days after the Spurs eliminated the Warriors. If not for the day of the game, what was the rush?
     
  15. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    What the heck? How can you let LeBron shoot a layup with 2 seconds left?
     
  16. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    That's exactly what I said to my son as we watched the end of that game. How does that happen??!!
     
  17. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    It's baffling. There's 2 seconds left. At most there is time for one pass after the inbounds and in that case it would have to be shot immediately. More likely whomever takes the inbounds pass is the one who is taking the shot. Perhaps a significant portion of your attention should focus on the best basketball player on the planet who plays for the other team. There's just a little bit of a chance that he's going to get the ball here.

    Now I know that people will complain when a team apparently screws up, and it's just as possible that if they made LeBron pull up for a jumper that he makes that anyway and the game ends the same way. But my complaint isn't strictly outcome based. The process that brought us to that outcome was seriously flawed. You just CANNOT do that. If you make him take a jumper with a hand in his face and he makes it, you tip your cap to him. But if LeBron is taking the shot, you can't let that shot be a finger roll.
     
  18. dogsoldier Gems: 7/31
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    ^It was just a total Pacers breakdown. Started when Vogel took Hibbert out for some incomprehensible reason; the expression on Hibbs' face as he sat on the bench and watched that play says a lot.

    Then Paul underplayed, followed by a compensation overplay, on LeBron, which basically left James wide-open to the rim. The whole sad spectacle was finished up by Young, standing underneath the rim, who near as I could tell stepped out of the way of LeBron--instead of hammering the crap out of him thus making him earn 2 points at the line (LeBron's season numbers at the line are only something like 78%. Sending him to the line is a much better proposition than hoping he misses an uncontested lay-up or dunk).

    I thought the Pacers had the game in the bag until Hibbert went to the bench. I thought the Pacers played the game in such a way that they looked like better team than the Heat for 90% of the game. But I seriously doubt their ability to win this series, now.
     
  19. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    That's been held up by just about everyone as a royal screwup on the part of Vogel, but I don't see it that way. While it is true that Hibbert would have contested that play had he been in the game, it was only through a series of other events happening that allowed LeBron to be in position for the layup in the first place. You even said it:

    And everything that you said above is correct. But just playing the percentages, with the amount of time left in the game, it's far more likely the attempt at a game winning shot is going to be a jumper, and not within six feet of the rim where Hibbert can make a difference. It's far more likely you're seeing a jumper from 15-feet there, and in such a situation, Hibbert's presence on the floor isn't going to help you. I was expecting a inbounds, pass, outside shot scenario.

    That's what I was talking about when I said people are quick to base the decision strictly on the outcome. Yes, Hibbert may well have been able to stop that play (or at least foul and/or make LeBron take a jumper), but if Paul doesn't misplay it initially, then the drive to the basket doesn't happen. And even after the misplay, if he gets defensive help from Young, perhaps the layup doesn't happen. He'd have to foul him, but as you said the chance of LeBron missing at least one of two free throws is a hell of a lot higher than missing an uncontested layup.
     
  20. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    If Hibbert is in the game, Miami runs a different play or they run the smee play, BUT Lebron probably doesn't drive to the basket. Who knows now, but hibbert is a must to be int he game. With under 3 seconds left, he could just stand there in the lane guarding against any penetration. That's strike one against Vogel.
     
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