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The identity of the Nameless One

Discussion in 'Planescape: Torment (Classic)' started by jesper898, Nov 21, 2001.

  1. ArrynMorgerim Gems: 9/31
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    Having played with Near Infinity and Inf. Explorer , I found an unimplemented quest in Torment. I think it was intended to hint on TNO's past.

    Remember Ratbone? This fellow has dialog file DR_BONE.DLG which gives him right to say something about Sharegrave and train you as a thief. However, there is another unused (I think) dialog - DRATBONE.DLG (also seems to me to be the original version - look at the filenames). In this file you can talk him to answer your questions, then he hints at something weird about a collector and some "Rake". He wants you to give him 5 cranium rat tails and then says that the collector is always near the Rake, who is skilled warrior (no matter). He also saw that collector speak with an Erynie (a baatezu fiend). You can present this information to the two fiends in Smoldering Corpse bar and they will tell you that the collector is another cursed erynie.

    Now it becomes interesting, because they want you to get a pendant from the "collector". You are to find the Rake and collector (ADYZOEL.CRE and RKCHSR.CRE(?)), but they don't seem to have scripts and therefore don't spawn. You can however read their dialogues. When you deal with them, you discover that the PENDANT OF YEMETH is device to absorb souls from dying beings:

    Rake Chaser: "It was commissioned by a mortal sorcerer of no small power, Yemeth. He sought immortality, but the idea of lichdom repulsed him. According to his journals, his studies of necromancy's darkest lore inspired the device's construction. With it, he could capture souls and use their essences to prolong his own existence, fueling his life force even as it waned."

    TNO: "How did Yemeth lose the pendant?"

    Rake Chaser: "He was destroyed utterly in a cataclysmic magical battle, most likely with a rival mage of power... supposedly, there was nothing left of him for the device's energies to power. The pendant itself changed hands time and again over the centuries, until I came to possess it."
    (DRKCHSR2.DLG)

    Okay, now why I post this. The name of Yemeth is referenced in your Journals (dodecaderon and tomb) and by pillar of skulls.

    "So they said - You have been divided. You are one of many men. You bear many names, and each has left their scars on your flesh.

    LOST ONE... IMMORTAL ONE... INCARNATION'S END... MAN OF A THOUSAND DEATHS... THE ONE DOOMED TO LIFE... RESTLESS ONE... ONE OF MANY... THE ONE WHOM LIFE HOLDS PRISONER... THE BRINGER OF SHADOWS... THE WOUNDED ONE... MISERY-BRINGER... YEMETH...

    I grow weary."
    (Drowned Nations tomb journal, middle part in caps also dodecaderon journal and pillar of skulls)

    What of it? I don't think TNO was Yemeth, because the rest of the game doesn't fit this. However, they might have meant this to be his secret in some early stages of storywriting, abandoning this ending later. Therefore TNO's: That was it? refering to his remembered name.
    Later they realized it's better if TNO's name stays mystery to us (so that we could wonder about Vecna). That can also be the reason why was the quest never finished.

    (Edit: Not particularly new revelation, I discovered. At least I did not say "TNO is Y!")

    Anyway, perhaps we can find more "developer's teories"...

    [ February 15, 2004, 01:29: Message edited by: ArrynMorgerim ]
     
  2. Platter

    Platter Can I buy you a tankard or two, lad? Veteran

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    Yup, that quest was abandoned fairly early in the development of the game. As you probably know, here are the interesting files relating to it;
    SKULPEND.ITM
    DRATBONE.DLG
    DRKCHSR.DLG
    DRKCHSR2.DLG
    DADYZOEL.DLG
    (DAETHEL.DLG & DTEGARIN.DLG)

    1. "We intended that the Nameless One's real, true, first name would never
    be revealed in the game, since anyone playing the game could imagine a
    much better name than any dumb name we could come up with. While it is
    possible that the NO was once named Yemeth during one of his
    incarnations, Yemeth is not his real, true, first name.

    Hope this helps,

    Chris Avellone
    "
    source

    2. "The Nameless One is not Zerthimon, and the Nameless One's "true name" is never revealed in the game - even I don't know who he truly is.

    Hope this helps,

    Chris
    "
    source

    3. "In any case, I don't know TNO's true name; as I understand it (and as Chris stated), it doesn't exist in any official capacity (and as such it certainly isn't Adahn, Yemeth, etc.).

    Really.

    -- Dave
    "
    source
     
  3. ArrynMorgerim Gems: 9/31
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    Yeah, I've read much of this yesterday, because I felt guilty for posting here something that has been annoying people two years ago.

    It's wonderful to get the insight into the boiling pot of a story so complex. All these behind-the-scenes legends quite add flavor.

    Btw, your Torment Crap site is excellent.
     
  4. Platter

    Platter Can I buy you a tankard or two, lad? Veteran

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    Thank you. :)
     
  5. SleepleSS Gems: 24/31
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    [​IMG] I still think the thruth is that he has no name and was Nameless all the time... I shall read all the posts I missed when I find some free time :)
     
  6. ejsmith Gems: 25/31
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    Interesting. I shall have to think upon all this...
     
  7. Runehawk Gems: 1/31
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    [​IMG] All very interesting possibilities raised.

    I've just finished PST for the first time but i did it without the patchs and i was romancing Grace and nothing happened so while i enjoyed the story some elements i'll have to patch b4 REALLY enjoying it.

    I know that there are a lot of incongruities and stuff thrown in for the sake of effect and drama for the story so they don't bother me too bad. pretty much agree with what everyone says.

    I'd like to add another possibilty that never came up in this thread though.
    In the smouldering cauldron or whatever that inn is called. A chap raises the possibility that another person could be yr Journal. and considering how Morte has been around with me. I sorta consider him an unreliable journal. and well what with him being a habitual liar and all. I don't think morte is his real name. I think that that's possibly yr name.
    The name you/orhim put on yr "journal".. an unearned name but with hints of future tragedy on it. Perfectly dramatic

    The "adahn" and "One" are pretty good alternatives.
    All in all, TNO's name will always be a matter of speculation. That's the mystery and the FUN about it and yes. If i was the gm who wrote the story. I WOULD allow him to find his name but keep it a secret from the player and never name him myself. It would spoil the essence of TNO.

    Good hunting
    Runehawk
     
  8. Jesper898 Gems: 21/31
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    He does find out his name in the end if you use the Bronze Sphere, after finding out that the good incarnation was the first one.
    The player doesn't hear the name, however.


    (How could I ever think this game was boring? I deserve to play Pool of Radiance for a week! :( )
     
  9. Takara

    Takara My goodness! I see turnips everywhere

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    How old is this thread now? oh well, my slight confusion with the times of the incarnations is this: Practical was around to interact with Pharod, Ianis, Hamrys' father etc. So it sets it a few decades ago. Thing is, he also rescued Dak'kon, and we know Dak'kon fell from that place in Limbo a long time ago. But that can be only a short time let's say. The real thing is Morte. We "know" that Practical was the one who pulled Morte of the pillar. But Morte says he has been travelling with you for several hundred years. He talks about several incarnations, like the one who chased him halfway round the spire, and tried to thrust him back in the pillar.

    He also says that after a couple of hundred years with TNO he started to realise he was feeling guilt. Now you might argue Morte isnt all that accurate, but this was probably said during one of his most honest moments. So as far as I can tell, the timeframe for Practical doesnt add up. Personally, I dont care, but I thought you might find that a brain twister.
     
  10. Vovka Gems: 1/31
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    Hmm, ok, I really felt the need to post. Eventhough some of the stuff I'm about to say has been said already since I skipped atleast one page of this thread ( :p ). Aaanyhow, I always thought that the paranoid incarnation came directly after the practical incarnation, and was paranoid because the practical incarnations mission was such a huge failure and somehow the failure scarred his mind so hard that it carried over as paranoia to the paranoid incarnation. And then after the paranoid one we could have the guy who thought morte was his head and died and then we could have the guy who wanted to thrust morte back into the pillar of skulls. It would make sense though, after three deaths TNO would have the ability to retain his memories (paranoid, guy who thought morte was his skull, the one who wanted to give morte back to the pillar of skulls).

    This could be a bit long winded since it's all stuck together, sort of, would be nice to hear your thoughts on it though. :)
     
  11. SleepleSS Gems: 24/31
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    Vovka You could be right about that but: What does it add to what we already knew? I mean Paranoid could have become Paranoid because he remeberd things but it doesn't matter what Incarnations came after that is it?
     
  12. Ominae_Shadowborne Gems: 1/31
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    You lot are gonna hate me for reviving this thread, but something has been left out.

    All those who know or have known TNO during his many lifetimes are unable to reveal to him who or what he is, those who have not met him (FFG, Nordom etc...) are able to guess as to who and what though.

    Meanwhile, Morte, Dak'kon, Fell and Ignus are only able to tell of how TNO has reflected on THEIR life.
    They cannot tell him any more as they are unable to due to the nature of the Multiverse.

    I cant find where it says that but it's in there somewhere.


    Also, two little plot things that haven't been hit yet.
    1) Journal in the Lady's Maze
    2) The Dream-Maker
     
  13. Platter

    Platter Can I buy you a tankard or two, lad? Veteran

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    The journal is the Paranoid Incarnation's, and the Dream Maker was commisioned by some incarnation to Nihl Xander's great-grandfather, Xeno Xander.
     
  14. Takara

    Takara My goodness! I see turnips everywhere

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    The thing about that journal in the maze....

    We know that it was TNO that unlocked all the portals in the lower ward. You get the memory with TNO running away with the key. The memory ends with TNO meeting the lady of pain.

    We are told from... sebastion... I think that the berk who did it vanished. We can conclude that he was mazed.

    Now, this incarnation is very different from paranoid... so the journal in the maze seems out of place.
     
  15. Platter

    Platter Can I buy you a tankard or two, lad? Veteran

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    If the Paranoid incarnation and our incarnation can both get Mazed, why can't the Lower Ward portal incident be with yet another incarnation?
     
  16. Takara

    Takara My goodness! I see turnips everywhere

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    Oh, I'm sure it is. Just thought I'd point out that irregularity.

    Also, think on this. How stupid is the Lady of Pain. She clearly doesnt make a unique maze everytime. Otherwise you wouldnt find paranoid's journal. So she sends you to the same one.

    Right, gotcha. Except.... if you have been mazed a few times, in the same one, and you seem to keep on escaping... How stupid must she be to stick you back there? If you've escaped before, it kinda tracks that you're gonna do it again.
     
  17. canton_kid Gems: 1/31
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    there's also suggestions that point towards the nameless one being a woman once. Can anyone verify this? Planescape is a wierd world, and i wont be surprise if transexual exist here. In fact if its true it would give the nameless one much more depth and character to his background, something which he dearly lacks.
     
  18. Andyr Gems: 14/31
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    What suggestions point towards TNO being a woman once?
     
  19. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    The Lady doesn't seem to be too concerned about long term solutions.

    Who said the incarnations had to follow a linear timeline? Why wouldn't times cross just as planes cross?
     
  20. grey_wolf Gems: 1/31
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    I just skimmed over most of the posts after Bombur's but I have a few questions/ideas that branch off of his,if someone else already covered it im sorry I missed it.

    When he joined with his mortality he said there was very little he couldn't do,and his mortality's power and even his own before they joined shows that after they joined he should have no problem controlling life and death which means if he wanted he could have continued living doesnt it? He chose to die to keep the plains from suffering right? but at what point does he become a good incarnation exactly? if it was the last incarnations conscience when he was "complete" what says he was good? and if it was all then surely he was evil,and thus wouldnt care. true his original self became good to try and attone for what he did but obviously he failed since hes still destined for the blood wars,and it seems that his past selfs were overall evil. and if he was evil in the end wouldnt he just let the planes suffer?

    I could go on this for aslong as Bomburs or close to it but, im startig to lose patience and i know i probobly messed up somewhere and threw my whole point off any way.
     
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