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The identity of the Nameless One

Discussion in 'Planescape: Torment (Classic)' started by jesper898, Nov 21, 2001.

  1. Rastor Gems: 30/31
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    If Hamrys was a child when Practical was around, then how did Practical take his adult daughter to the Fortress of Regrets?
     
  2. ArrynMorgerim Gems: 9/31
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    1)
    he took Deionarra with him, and she was not Hamrys' daughter, but the lawyer's.

    2)
    I think that it is not considered a beginning of new incarnation when he hasn't lost his memories.
     
  3. Rastor Gems: 30/31
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    Isn't Hamrys the lawyer? Or has my 6-month old memory failed?
     
  4. Jesper898 Gems: 21/31
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    I've never realy understood why TNO doesn't lose his memories anymore.

    Could anyone explain?
     
  5. Dragon's Jewel Gems: 14/31
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    He kinda explains it at the end, where he says that he's no longer losing his memories, and he so he knows it's time to merge (you know with whom I mean)
    It might also fit in with the prophecy, that this is the lifetime where he can die and still wake up the same person.
     
  6. ArrynMorgerim Gems: 9/31
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    I thought he was losing memories only "from time to time", and so one incarnation could have taken more than one life. perhaps it's something like sleep: you can fall asleep for some 25 000+- times without danger, and then you won't awake...
     
  7. Jesper898 Gems: 21/31
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    Who tells you about this prophecy?


    I've beaten the game twice but i'll be damned if I can remember anything about a prophecy :p
     
  8. ArrynMorgerim Gems: 9/31
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    If you mean the one that an incarnation (I forgot which one) has only three memory-losless death ahead, I think it was in the nameless' traped tomb.
     
  9. Platter

    Platter Can I buy you a tankard or two, lad? Veteran

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    Hamrys is the coffin maker.

    The prophecy was told to the Paranoid Incarnation, and he wrote it in the Dodecahedron Journal;
    "There is NOTHING he can do. Memories are GONE, he says, NEVER to return. He says/lies and tells me this is what he told me! LIES! He says my mind is WEAKENING from every death! LIES! He sat there, BETRAYING my CONFIDENCE with every turn.
    He says that only after THREE MORE DEATHS, THREE MORE LIVES will I gain the benefit of keeping my memories, but that I, MYSELF, I will DIE when I die. DIE! How can one be immortal and still DIE?! He could not answer, so he was of NO USE. I BUTCHERED him so that no other incarnation will ever benefit from his USELESSNESS."

    For those talking about whether or not TNO lost his memory with each death prior to the game starting, you may want to check out this thread in which I said pretty much all I have to say about that (post numbers 5, 8 and 15);
    http://www.forumplanet.com/planetbaldursgate/topic.asp?fid=1885&tid=1234974

    Correct. But, assuming he forgot with each death until the start of the game, "THREE MORE DEATHS, THREE MORE LIVES" = three more incarnations (and if you doubt said 'assumption' than read the above linked thread before challenging it, please).
    There is no reason given.

    [ January 10, 2004, 18:28: Message edited by: Platter ]
     
  10. HeresiarchQin Gems: 2/31
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    The Nameless One apparently was a powerful person before became an immortal, for he was a general in the battlefield, was a powerful mage who "danced sorceries with Lum the Mad (Lum is also the same mage who created the machine in the Watcher's Keep of ToB)", and raising dead or alike was nothing but simple work for him. However, I still have a LOT of questions here:

    1.While the mortal TNO was a general in battlefield, did he take part in the Blood War as well?

    2.The Abishais in the Smoldering Corpse Bar, and the Baatezu in Curst know TNO, but which TNO? The "mortal" TNO?

    3.In the opening movie, you see TNO caress a girl who suddenly turns into a zombie, pointing at TNO along with others...who are they? Were they people who TNO killed with purpose (like sacrificing Deionarra in the fortress) before TNO became immortal, or they were the ones he loved but died before he became "evil", or they were people who was close to TNO but suffered after he attained immortality, because we all know how the shadows was created by him...

    4.In the end, did TNO "die"? In what form does he walk in the lower planes, his whole physical form? A spirit/soul? If he "die" there, will he be released?

    5.What do you think he will do in the Blood War in the end? To serve the Baatezu as he used to be, but as a foot soldier? Or achieve greater power with his wit and strength so he can survive there? After all, he must be very powerful, after he merged with his mortality, regaining all his old knowledge, physical power, and experience.

    5.Poor Deionarra....so she will wait for TNO forever? Until one day TNO dies in Blood War? Does TNO even ages in the lower planes?

    6.Do you think my level 30 (maybe he would gain an additional 5 levels after merging with the Transcedence One) Nameless One can survive in the lower planes long enough so he can find a day and a way to meet his friends :D (well, I think even he can, he can only see Fall-From-Grace again...I doubt the others can live too long :( )?
     
  11. Platter

    Platter Can I buy you a tankard or two, lad? Veteran

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    Most of those things are never specifically attributed to the mortal incarnation of The Nameless One.

    When The Transcendent One is telling you about all the things he's learned from TNO, he's talking about things he's learned from any/all of TNO's incarnations, not just the original incarnation. Here is the quote;
    TTO: "BROKEN ONE, IN THE SPAN OF YOUR FORGOTTEN LIFETIMES, I HAVE OBSERVED, LEARNED, AND GATHERED POWER WITHIN THE VAULTS OF MY BODY.
    WHEN YOU FOUGHT IN THE BLACK DECADE WAR, ALL YOUR MILITARY KNOWLEDGE WAS CARVED IN MY MIND. WHEN YOU DANCED SORCERIES WITH LUM THE MAD, I LEARNED WITH YOU. ALL YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN, I HAVE *NOT.* THE POWER OVER LIFE AND DEATH IS BUT A MINOR DISPLAY OF MY POWER."

    TTO also explains later that the reason he has power over life and death is not necessarily because he learned it from any incarnation of TNO (let alone the original incarnation), but simply because he is mortality;
    TTO: "I AM MORTALITY ITSELF. THE NATURE OF LIFE AND DEATH IS SOMETHING I KNOW... WELL."

    There is only one memory that we know is of the original incarnation in which he appears to be leading an army, and the first half of it is triggered when Ghysis asks TNO if he remembers ever being in the Blood War. A while ago I asked Dave Maldonado (one of the major designers on Torment, who also wrote Ghysis' dialog) about that memory and if it was specifically of the Blood War;
    "I hate to say it, but it's one of the many ambiguities of the game. Yes, TNO was down there, and he certainly saw the Blood War, and it touched him and his men as he led them out of (what is probably) the Abyss and into the Gray Waste, but that's all that was laid out as "certain" in writing."

    We are never given that information.

    From Chris Avellone, Torment's Lead Designer;
    http://platter.jink.org/threads/chris_girl.htm
    "... the woman that appears in the movie is an unidentified victim of one of the Nameless One's previous incarnations. She was made up by the artists, and her story was never fleshed out or put into the game. It was more of a, "it looks cool, let's put her in.""

    Dave Maldonado gave some insight into that;
    "He gets sucked right on down because Ravel's magic/"the split" isn't protecting him from becoming an owned petitioner anymore. He's dead already, many times over, and doesn't need to die again to enter his "bargain.""
     
  12. HeresiarchQin Gems: 2/31
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    Wow, thanks a LOT! That truly helps.
     
  13. ArrynMorgerim Gems: 9/31
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    That's certainly interesting.
    (That was an aswer we were giving to our English teacher when we were asked for our opinion on something.)
     
  14. Jesper898 Gems: 21/31
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    Thanks for the replies, I understand a bit better now, I wondered if he died in the end too.
     
  15. ArrynMorgerim Gems: 9/31
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    They say it was a few hundred ears ago, and i think they would not recognize TNO, if they had known the original one (not grey, scared - see his transformation in the intro)


    This is a speculation: At first his hand is smooth, so he had known her back when he was normal man. Then his hand turns into that zombie-like. Perhaps she's acusing him of becoming immortal, while she aged and eventualy died.

    P.S.
    Have not Fall from Grace said TNO was probably a human male?

    [ January 22, 2004, 20:54: Message edited by: ArrynMorgerim ]
     
  16. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    Don't know if that's true, but I think nameless one only looses his memories when he's killed by shadows. He's memory loss is triggered by TTO somehow I think. "Normal" death doesn't lead to memory loss.

    I'm playing it through once more. He's daughter disappeared four years ago, says the lawyer. Practical one was also around 4 years ago. And don't forget the woman on the market, who recognises you and has vivid memories about Deionarra and the blind archer.

    On the other hand, you get a message from a crazy incarnation which is about two normal lifetimes old through the daughter of the women the crazy one gave it to deliver. So, now I think about crazy one as before practical one.

    I still think that Practical one lived a very long life, but when I end, I have to check, if it was really the practical one who ordered the tomb. I think, that I attributed every reasonable and mean deed of former incarnations to the practical one. A credit he mabye didn't deserve.

    Or is it, that the three fractions of yourself you meet are compendiums of incarnations ? Bound together according to have been practical/evil, crazy/chaotic and Peaceful/good ? And the "dominating" of all those talks to you with knowledge of them all ? The problematic part about this view is the one, the "good" incarnation, who claims to be the first incarnation who had a life as geographer, until the shadows came for him.
     
  17. Lazy Bonzo Gems: 24/31
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    The paranoid incarnation built the trapped tomb, because he was parnoid of those who he thought as other people coming to steal what was his (his memories). Of course as we, and TNO, finds out he was paranoid of himself and his future incarnations.
     
  18. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    No, the crazy one improved the traps in the tomb after he found it, but he didn't build the tomb. The practical one, which lived before the crazy one, getspretty angered about that when it's mentioned. But I'm still not sure if the practical one build the tomb.
     
  19. Rastor Gems: 30/31
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    I always thought that the Good Incarnation built the tomb, and the Paranoid put all the additional traps in it.
     
  20. Blue Loon Gems: 4/31
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    :yot: Ah a game with a chacter named after me. I feel honored that they thought I was so great that I must be in it. :grin: Thank you all, for convincing me to buy it.
     
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