1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

The Big Obama Administration Thread

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Death Rabbit, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Messages:
    4,883
    Media:
    8
    Likes Received:
    148
    Gender:
    Male
    Wait, wait, forget this hate-mongering BS, forget who the messenger was, is this "preventive detentions" plan for real? I mean, if it's true, then no matter what you think of the messenger, the conclusion should be the same.
     
  2. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,605
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Given who the messenger is, the odds are quite high that he has exaggerated, twisted, and mangled the actual policy beyond recognition. I'm not saying that the matter isn't worth looking into, but I'm just not going to trust a polemicist from either side of the aisle without checking his facts first, and I imagine this is true of most of us.
     
  3. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    NOG,

    Here is the issue with the Gitmo detainees, and there is no good solution for some of them. Some of them can be tried in American courts, which is fine. Some of them can be shown to have done nothing wrong, and be sent back to where ever they were initially picked up, which is fine. Some of them can be tried in foreign courts for crimes against other coalition forces, which is fine. But there is a final group that cannot be tried - in some cases because EITs have been used on them - but have stated that they have tried to attack Americans in the past and would do so again if released.

    What the heck do you do with them? You cannot try them, you certainly don't want to release them in the US, and you don't want to send them back to Iraq or Afghanistan to join the fight against US forces again. (This has happened in the past, about 50 of the 500 Gitmo detainees who were released during Bush's second term have been picked up again for attacks on US troops since their release.)

    Obama is in a very difficult position. His best option would be to keep these guys locked up, but it appears he might not be able to as without the prospect of a trial, their continued detention would be unconstitutional. On the other hand, if he releases them and they end up killing Americans, he will be labelled as being soft on terrorism. I don't see how he works his way out of this without making a decision that will be very unpopular among many people. That's not a slam on Obama, I just think he's in a situation where there are no good choices.
     
  4. Iku-Turso Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,393
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    28
    Guess what. You guys already have "preventive detention", in D.C. according to Encyclopedia Britannica, there's even such countries as Belgium, which is renowned for it's vile dicatorship! :eek:

    (France has it too, but that only goes to show what kind of evil countries have that already...)

    This from NY Times: Obama Is Said to Consider Preventive Detention Plan (emphasis mine)

    Read the article before reacting to the headline.
     
  5. martaug Gems: 23/31
    Latest gem: Black Opal


    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    59
    This is a good article on ther matter with a LOT of information to digest
    preventive detention

    oneof the better parts
    It also addresses such issues as :
    Are defenders of Obama's proposals being consistent?
    Questions for defenders of Obama's proposal.
    Do other countries have indefinite preventive detention?
    Is this comparable to traditional POW detentions?
    Is it "due process" when the Government can guarantee it always wins?
    Can we "be safe" by locking up all the Terrorists with no charges?

    A very interesting read with lots of links, even if it is by a liberal(:p JK)
     
  6. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    Martaug - I think GWB and Dick are going to make great cell mates - I wonder if they will have matching jamies. :hmm:
     
  7. martaug Gems: 23/31
    Latest gem: Black Opal


    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    59
    Bad Chandos.:nono: no cookies for you.:p
    Do people other than children even wear jammies anymore? Gotta go commando to feel the good sheets:outta:
     
  8. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,605
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Parents do. It's one thing for your five year old to see you in your birthday suit or whitie-tighties (sue me, I have an irrational fear of testicular torsion), but your 13 year old? Not really.
     
  9. martaug Gems: 23/31
    Latest gem: Black Opal


    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    59
    Hahaha!:clap:
    Luckily no kids in the house however i am pretty cautious around the wifes d*** cat! ("oh look!" thinks the cat "a hanging cat toy! Mreow!!" Attacks with a leap :jawdrop: BAD CAT!! AAAH!! Get it off!!! Get it off!!!):wail:
     
  10. Iku-Turso Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,393
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    28
    This was a good question in that article martaug posted
    Just pointing it out. It's a good question. How do you know if someone is criminally insane, if he hasn't done anything yet?

    Sure, the guy is frothing from the mouth, says that the day will come that he'll waste a lot of people, he has a whole lot of guns (legally obtained), he has a collection of knives (still not illegal), his bookshelves have such fine pieces of literature as mein kampf, and the anarchist cookbook, he has a collection of splatter films (which alone do not prove a damn bit, except that he has a preference for a certain type of movie-genre), his personal hygiene is nonexistent, he has nervous tics and he has these strange fits of rage seemingly directed towards no-one specifi, he's just gotten into a lot of stress and got laid off from work, he acts in a threatening manner (without actually vocalizing a threat to injure anyone specifically)...etc.

    But he hasn't done anything. He has a "group of similar-minded people" and they play a little fun and games, like 'how to defend a house in case of a siege' or just-for-fun theoretical discussions about "how to make a perfect murder", but they haven't done anything illegal.

    Now if this person should be put under survellance by the police, or *gasp* detained, without due process (there can't be since he hasn't. done. anything.) and questioned...well...the last school shooter in here was questioned by the police...and he hadn't done anything, so they couldn't detain him. Two days later, 9 people dead.

    Much better that way than putting the perp on a tight leash, now wasn't it?
     
  11. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    The short answer? If he's in America, you sell him a gun.
     
  12. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Messages:
    4,883
    Media:
    8
    Likes Received:
    148
    Gender:
    Male
    Iku, that article does ease a few fears a little, but it honestly raises more considering that it basically legitimizes the base of the claim.
     
  13. martaug Gems: 23/31
    Latest gem: Black Opal


    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    59
    Or we have a person of interest to the police, Oh we will call him "iku".
    He has posted some things online that the current politicians don't like and feel like he is a "threat" to them.
    Well then, just pick him up & hold him until he proves he isn't a threat(however the hell he is supposed to prove a negative).

    See Iku, you potrayed someone that had every sign of being on(or over) the edge but thats not who this type of detention is directed at.
     
  14. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,605
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    What? What red flags has Iku displayed that come even remotely close to frothing at the mouth, stating that the day will come that he'll waste a lot of people, possessing a large knife and gun collection, copies of mein kampf and the anarchist cookbook on his bookshelf, a collection of splatter films, non-existent hygiene, nervous tics, flying into strange fits of rage directed towards no-one specific, and behaving in a threatening manner while also traveling with a "group of similar-minded people" who play games like 'how to defend a house in case of a siege' or just-for-fun theoretical discussions about "how to make a perfect murder".

    Any of these things alone (except maybe the last one) would be utterly meaningless, but put together? A completely different story.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2009
  15. martaug Gems: 23/31
    Latest gem: Black Opal


    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    59
    No no drew, i wasn't saying that iku was exhibiting any of those signs(didn't mean to give you that impression).
    Just that the type of person that he portrayed in his post wouldn't be the kind of person they would be tempted to use this kind of detention against.

    Now iku may have strange fits:p but i don't think he fits in the raving funny smelling lunatic archetype:nono:.
     
  16. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,605
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    If, by "this kind of detention," you are referring to the suspension of habeus corpus, we are in agreement. Just as I think all the prisoners held in Bagram and GITMO should be either charged or released, I also think that our police shouldn't be able to hold someone on mere suspicion of criminal intent. That said, the FBI would have more than enough cause to tap this guy's phone, put parabolic microphones in this guy's house, and maybe even monitor his movements. This isn't the kind of guy we detain -- since we follow the rule of law, we'd need evidence of criminal intent to do that -- but he sure as **** is the kind of guy we watch very, very carefully.
     
  17. martaug Gems: 23/31
    Latest gem: Black Opal


    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    59
    True.

    Now something else i dislike about the obama led crap, what they are calling Dealergate.
    closing dealers largely republican

    dealergate statistical evidence

    reuters

    dealergate investigation asked for by Democrat & republican
    Big dem donor keeps all 6 dealerships while competitors are eliminated

    This seems to be a legit case of pure political chicanery. Lets see some of that so hyped transparency now.
     
    The Great Snook likes this.
  18. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    4,117
    Media:
    28
    Likes Received:
    313
    Gender:
    Male
    I have been keeping an eye on Dealergate also. I'm still not convinced that all the evidence is in yet. However, if it turns out that the Obama administration is making "business" decisions based on political payback, this could be the worst thing to happen politically since Nixon. Hopefully, the "car czar" will release how the the decisions were made. Wasn't one of the Obama "Promises" to be more transparant?
     
  19. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,605
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    No amount of transparency can shed light on a manufactured scandal. :p
     
  20. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    Perhaps you fell asleep in 2000 and woke up in 2008? :) The last 8 years have been nothing but political payback to the GWB supporters, starting with the tax cuts for the wealthy, TGS.




    Martaug - There was a similar scandal with GWB that involved the closing of military bases in the states that did not vote for him after the national election.

    Edit: Anyone who has worked for a large corporation can answer that one: It's typical "corporate think." Those of us who have worked for these guys in the past have seen it, or worse, been victims of it for years.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2015
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.