1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

The bad of NWN2

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights 2' started by catbert, Nov 11, 2006.

  1. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    172
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    Dying works kind of like KotOR's. Or exactly like it. If one of your people survives the battle, your dead will rise and shine at the end of it.

    Top-down cameras are nearly identical in the two, except the sequel's camera turn/zoom speed will be sluggish on lower framerates. And by sluggish, I mean abhorrently laggy.
     
  2. NorskiNincompoop Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've gotto agree with OP on most points. I'd be happy even if it was only NWN1 with a better OC.

    Gimme a couple of Infinity-games with old AD&D-rules please. I'm starved... :square:
     
  3. omnigodly Gems: 17/31
    Latest gem: Star Diopside


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    944
    Likes Received:
    2
    The difference about party members "dieing" is listed under the rules for all the difficulties. Check 'em out :) .
     
  4. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,662
    Media:
    38
    Likes Received:
    158
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually, I'm not so sure about losing those attacks in NWN. As a shifter, I'd regularly be treated to the sight of opponents losing health (and receive poison damage) by the very potent stare of my Drider-form. So apparently the attacks don't need to be visually drawn to actually register.
     
  5. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    172
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    ^ Yeah, that is kind of what I am seeing with my monk - there are more damage rolls on the enemy than I see attacks. I might be just blind, but that's how it always seemed to me. No attacks lost, as many animated as time allows, the rest do the NWN2 thing - rolled but not animated. Although at that point I don't complain - the battle looks perfectly awesome.

    I felt like I wasn't being credible enough in my bashing of this software contraption, so I installed it anew, and started a game with a CE char just to see the extent of how really evil the game won't let me be. Halfling, fighter. The ridiculousness of the evil conversation threads almost makes me cry, and I love how everyone seems to put words in my mouth.

    Oh, oh. I think I deserve a little something for saving you. Bam! One evil point. Damn mercenaries, they're clearly the pinnacle of all that is evil.

    Finish off a stray duergar in the village? Evil point. Bevil: Oh wow, wasn't that excessive? Oh, I don't know, they only tried to chop your momma into pieces for souvenirs and then have their way with your brothers' and sisters' young developing bodies in ways that are illegal in only most states... before chopping them for souvenirs! But yes, a coupe de grace on one of them was so vile of me. I'll repent.

    If killing a hostile invader in cold blood is evil, then I sure don't think much of all that scum comprising any nation's armed forces. Yet, oddly enough, beating a scared neigbour to pulp so they would join the militia did not give me evil points. Oh, it's only your typical tyranny, nothing evil there.

    Also, more about the AI. In NWN multiplayer we used to play a game called "Zombie Tennis" where two people stand on opposite sides of a zombie lord and pelt it with sling bullets, and every time it's hit, it turns and walks towards the attacker. The point was to get the zombie to die closer to you for the win. In NWN2, AI does the same to my NPCs. Khelgar got caught between two bandits in the camp, who just happened to have their shots timed in a way that he kept running between them until he died. I laughed. The AI is about as smart as a zombie. :D
     
  6. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,854
    Media:
    996
    Likes Received:
    219
    Gender:
    Male
    You know, I found Dungeon Siege as a game rather boring.

    But I have to say this, its engine and its art work were far superior to what I'm seeing in NWN2 and made far less resource and system demands for it. :skeptic:

    So Obsidian and Atari, couldn't you have done something similarly modest and efficient instead of blowing up our hopes and expectations in such a bs manner?
     
  7. stuertmp Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    perhaps this is not what you meant, but there is a option to make the action "left click on party member" cause you to switch to that person, in the options, primary tab (the one that is shown initialy) check the box "possess companion as default action" that was really annoying me at first, along with the automatic targeting of spells and effects on whoever was already selected (also remedied by an option on that first tab)

    yes the party ai is horrible, but i like micro-management, i can tell them what is best for the situation much better then any ai could, because only i know what im planning to do next. although i dont go as far as puppet mode. i dont mind them using their own "judgement" for action like to "trip or not to trip" aka unlimited uses abilities, but even with "use items" off and "cast spells"=no they still use healing spells and healing potions, where it really bothers me is with potions, i dont want them using my (at this point in the game) expensive potion of "heal" unless i say its absolutely neccisary
    and you think your examples of bad spell use are bad, i had a wizard cast cloudkill on a bunch of undead, he is trying to do CON DAMAGE on a creature with NO CON score, of course it wouldnt have happened had i not forgotten to turn off spell casting when he entered the party

    the fact that they rez after a battle doesnt bother me, i always had at least a few items around to resurect my pals, one thing that bothers me in some crpgs is if my main character is a fighter, and i have a cleric with rez spells prepared (or anyone has items to bring back dead) and main guy dies, they should be able to bring him back, you shouldnt be forced to reload if theres a means for you to be brought back to life handy, at high enough levels no one is permanently dead (usualy) that shouldnt be changed simply because your the one that died instead of someone else (i play many high level PnP games, no decent party should ever loose a member after level 15 or so, unless your directly fighting the gods, but then youve got bigger problems :-P)

    if they just warped FOREWARD it wouldnt be such a problem, but often the selected character will warp BACKWARDS, especialy if i click somewhere while they are moving, they will poof back to where they just were before they start for the new path, might happen with the other party members as well, but iv never noticed

    something iv also noticed thats annoying me, zoom in and look what happens when you click someone to attack, the character runs up to them, runs into them like they didnt even see them standing there, stops, and then proceeds to start attacking, what about charge attacks, not that charge attacks are that important to me, i just dont want my character to "bump into" the enemy before he starts hacking away

    i just hope some of the issues get worked out soon (i havent been able to patch yet, it wouldnt work at all for version 1.01, and after reading the posts about problems with 1.02 im not even gonna try untill version 1.03 or later) the patching problems are one of my biggest issues

    just to clarify, i agree there's problems, but i still find it an enjoyable game over all, i loved nwn, have been looking foreward to this game for ages, and have never played either of the kotor games so ill have to take your word on their similarities
     
  8. gekko Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have to agree that the options for role playing are limited at best and illusionary at worst.

    My companion paladin seems to have no issues cutting down members of the Watch left right and centre. Neeshka voices her opinions of other female party members even after I leave her in the tavern from the moment I enter Neverwinter.

    The big one for me, so far, however, has been...

    *spoiler*

    I elected to take the "evil" path when getting to NW. Well, guess what? After I burn down the Watch headquarters and slaughter dozens of guards, I become a squire to a local knight anyways. Ok, not so bad, the knight is a scumbag and it's all for show. Oh wait, except that now members of the Watch are defering to me and following my orders. And I'm getting orders from the Lords of Neverwinter. Gee. Why didn't I just join the Watch from day one?

    *end spoiler*
     
  9. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    172
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    ^ :lol:

    Also, has anyone noticed that stealth doesn't really work? Or do the the CR 3 mobs constantly have active spot skill in the 20s?
     
  10. omnigodly Gems: 17/31
    Latest gem: Star Diopside


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    944
    Likes Received:
    2
    If you stealth during combat you have a -20 to the hide check. It's pointless to do stealth during combat unless you have "Hide in plain sight" feat.
     
  11. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    172
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    ^ Well, clearly that's not what I was doing. I tried to sneak Neeshka around the bandit camp, starting from way outside the gate, but everyone seems to notice her from half a mile away. Thought it could be a fluke, loaded a few times - nope... Every single time, they see me almost before I see them.
     
  12. omnigodly Gems: 17/31
    Latest gem: Star Diopside


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    944
    Likes Received:
    2
    That might be a trigger issue - as they're supposed to know when you're party marches in there. It's unfortunate, but it's happened in the BG's and NWN1.

    Otherwise, maybe her hide just isn't good enough? Or their spot (since they're bandits and all), is as high as her hide?
     
  13. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    I know stealth worked in the graveyard because I'd have Neeshka sneak in to disarm traps while the undead were on the other side of the trap.
     
  14. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,346
    Likes Received:
    97
    Are BTA and Catbert actually playing the same game? Maybe there are two versions of NWN2 and BTA has the version set to "good" and Catbert has the version set to "crappy".
     
  15. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    172
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    Which is odd, the undead react to my fighters.. um.. half of the time. Sometimes they start attacking from far away, and sometimes I approach them and they don't move until I'm practically standing in front of them.

    Playing a fighter hides a lot of confusing f*ckups this game has. If I don't try to use tactical positioning, I don't notice strange follow behaviour, or the fact that my loads screw up the party positioning from the save, or the fact that stealth hardly ever works, or that ranged sneak attacks have the strangest conditions set on them.

    On the other hand, my psychopath halfling is nearly invincible thanks to spring attack, and at this point I am completely convinced that the campaign offers no roleplay, just a point-and-click adventure tailored for a neutral good ranger.
     
  16. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, in the cases I'm talking about, after I disarmed the traps, they reacted to my non-stealthed characters after I brought them forward...

    Sweet! That's what I'm playing! :lol:
     
  17. Bombur

    Bombur I'm always last and I don't like it

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    0
    I haven't ever been able to get stealth to work -- not because I can't hide, but because my idiot plate-armored party can't figure out that they aren't supposed to follow the sneaking rogue.

    A typical attempt: rogue goes stealthy, detects trap, tries to disarm. Dwarf follows rogue. Bad guys see dwarf standing around and move to attack. The problem here is that even in puppet mode (assuming you can get it work properly) characters follow the point man when not in combat.
     
  18. Celesialraven Gems: 11/31
    Latest gem: Bloodstone


    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bombur,

    Have you tried commanding them to stand their ground through the rightclick menu? Before I realized this I had the frustrating experience of trying to assist Neeshka go stealthy through a house of enemies in one of her quests... I had to go back to my other characters every 2 seconds and stop them from moving.

    Puppet mode only means that they will not perform an action, they will follow unless you order them to stop.

    Late edit:
    Consider me as having the 'good' perspective that BTA expresses. My Neutral Good druid\warpriest is having a blast.
     
  19. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Right. In order to separate Neeshka (or my Ranger, or both), I have to send the appropriate commands to the other party members. Which I admit is a bit of a pain. It would be nicer if this was easier.
     
  20. Sir Belisarius

    Sir Belisarius Viconia's Boy Toy Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2000
    Messages:
    4,257
    Media:
    23
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    BTA has found a weakness!! The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!

    I am enjoying this game. There are weaknesses, that I feel would make the multiplayer version of this game cumbersome. But for a stand alone adventure - I'm having fun.

    How's Hallen Rwn working out in this game? At least you don't see the arrows sticking out of you when you get hit, eh? LOL!!!
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.