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The bad of NWN2

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights 2' started by catbert, Nov 11, 2006.

  1. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I just realized that I haven't listed a single bug of this game - things that are broken, not just bad. Listing those would probably take the space of three chapters from Anna Karenina, but we are to expect that, right?

    My favourite one is the load bug - when you load game, everyone appears at the location of your main character as opposed to where they were when you saved. Makes for great fun when trying to stage an ambush and save, then load on failure, I'm sure you understand why. Come to think of it, it just might be a game feature...
     
  2. Enagonios Gems: 31/31
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    the comparisons to KotOR (which I loved) make me want to play the game (as I wasn't a fan of the first NWN anyway).. but my computer is too crappy and slow :bang: guess I'll stick to the BG series-KotOR series-PS:T Triumvirate :/
     
  3. el M Gems: 3/31
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    oki - i'll check back on this game in a couple of years see it has grown enough . Till then there are other games to play. Given the list of flaws i fear i will never enjoy it. Maybe go for a quick test run to see the good points, if any, as reference for future games.
     
  4. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Same here. I will also be putting all my plans to buy / build a new PC on to the shelf seeing as there is no point, now that I don't need to meet NWN2's superhuman hardware requirements. Thanks for saving me $2,000, catbert. Your cheque is, er, in the mail.
     
  5. Bombur

    Bombur I'm always last and I don't like it

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    I don't deny any of the problems catbert mentioned. I am, however, still playing the game. I complain about it constantly, but still find myself in front of the computer playing it. I think the problem is that I have been so starved for a new D&D based CRPG that I am willing to put up with crap -- just not quietly. The story starts off poorly, but I think it improves a bit by chapter 2.

    Personally, my *biggest* issue is load times. I have timed out several load times, and come up with approximate averages. Keep in mind I'm running the minimum specs.

    To start first intro movie after clicking "play" -- 2:45 minutes to 3:05 minutes.

    To load a saved game -- 1:30 minutes to 2:00 minutes.

    To save a game (named, or with "quicksave," or with "autosave) -- about 1:30 minutes.

    To load a new area -- about 2:00 minutes, on average.

    So, when I want to start the game, it takes about 5 minutes just to load the first game, assuming I click through all the movies. And it takes almost that long to transition from one major area of the map to another if an autosave is required.
     
  6. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Bombur, that would frustrate the heck out of me.
     
  7. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    While I'm not the one to say KotOR sucks, as I made a few runs through the first one, and had a good bit of fun with it. I ever ran through the second one, carefully stepping over the programming holes, fresh paint spots, and rough splintery edges - the story was okay, and all in all, the game mechanics weren't spoiled from the first KotOR.

    However!

    I find the way they managed to merge this engine into the NWN system absolutely appalling. The game mechanics of a top-down deep roleplaying game are radically different from a third-person adventure game, and Obsidian just forgot that, along with the word "ergonomics". It's a struggle to play, because NWN is a much more complicated system than the straightforward KotOR, which could be easily played on four keys and a mouse without sacrificing the fun factor. There's so much more to NWN than going forward, opening door, attacking/using force power, repeating again. The programming doesn't account for the usability of all the features that you often need.
     
  8. Bombur

    Bombur I'm always last and I don't like it

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    @Harbourboy: Got that right! I can't just sit here, so I read, or I clean the house, or I take a shower, or whatever. This is going to be one of those games I play once and then put away for good.
     
  9. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    @Bombur

    Or shelf it for a couple of years, wait for a few more patches to improve it, and by that time the requirements will be easily met by a fairly average PC. Hell, I'm sure there will be some great player made modules by then too!
     
  10. Celesialraven Gems: 11/31
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    Bombur ,

    I found those load times a shock as I have yet to experience a load that takes more than 10 seconds. Most are done in 5.
     
  11. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Mine are a lot quicker than bombur's as well. I have 2GB of RAM on machine machine. I'm not sure what Bombur has, but I'm guessing it's less than that.
     
  12. Anjo Gems: 6/31
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    What a pity it turned out like this, I really waited this one. Well I've bought enough games that haven't been worth the money spent so I'll leave NWN2 for now.

    Thank you for the info catbert.
     
  13. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Catbert, you absolutely just saved me $50. I'll bake you a cake and mail it to you immediately.
     
  14. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Catbert saved me $2,000. He rules. I'll bake him another cake and email it to him immediately.
     
  15. BlckDeth Gems: 7/31
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    I think that most of you are missing the point. Neverwinter Nights 2 is not a bad game. It's really not. NWN2 is an AVERAGE game, doomed to fail after years of hope, anxiety, and omg-im-gonna-crap-my-pants-if-this-doesn't-come-out-soon anticipation. I mean really, Neverwinter Nights has never existed, and this were merely the beginning, and you had heard none of the hype, read no reviews, and just plain bought the game on a whim and started playing it, would you be so disappointed? I mean, it's not like you'd think it was brilliant, but at least your expectations wouldn'tve been crushed like CB's obviously have been. The fact of the matter is, big-name companies all-too-often get caught up in the past, and rather than striving to improve their old game with the passion and originality that they showed in the beginning, they get caught up in the hype and make an attempt to cash in for easy bucks. Remember a little company called BioWare? Now THERE was a company famous for creating a brilliant game, then following straight up with a knock-out sequel. I think that is Obsidian had just taken a leaf out of BioWare's book, that is, a PASSION FOR EXCELLENCE, none of this would've happened. But because Obsidian lost sight of what was really important, which was to deliver a brilliant game to satisfy the expectations of thousands of gamers whose lives had influenced by the game they had PROMISED to succeed; we are left with merely a shadow of what we should have been given. THAT is why Neverwinter Nights 2 was such a disappointment, as well as a mediocre game. It wasn't just the bugs, and it wasn't just the hype. It wasn't even the gameplay. What ruined this game was a lack of passion.
     
  16. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    ^ In a nutshell, I agree.

    "Frail mediocrity" comes to mind when I think of what NWN2 turned out to be, and as that, it's not a bad game - just average. But then, factor in poor programming and absolutely stellar system requirements, and in my mind that crosses over into the bad territory.

    Obsidian gets the benefit of the doubt, though, and just about everyone (at first, me included) goes and says "Oh well, that happens to any game today, they'll go and patch it and everything will be all right". Other companies don't get the same treatment, because they aren't so lucky as to have their paws on games for which Bioware made the name associated with innovative gameplay, quality, and support. Just because BioWare really knows how to make games doesn't mean that Obsidian knows how to make sequels to those games. KotOR2 being a strong case. Yet, Obsidian, so far, has the BioWare shield that other good companies didn't.

    One of those companies that comes to mind is Troika Games, yet another bunch of people from the original Fallout team (just like the core of Obsidian). If VTM: Bloodlines was a sequel to a Bioware masterpiece, would Troika have gone under? I don't know, but in my book NWN2 is no better than Bloodlines as far as release quality goes, but it lags far behind aesthetically. Maybe a poor comparison...
     
  17. omnigodly Gems: 17/31
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    For $2,000 You could build a Core 2 Duo Extreme Desktop PC, with 4GB ram, 512-1024MB Video and still have enough left over for a monitor, surround sound speakers, G15 keyboard and a wireless/wired combo router...

    FYI, that PC would run any game that comes out for the next 5 years (before 32+ core chips come out that replace the need for Grahpics Cards), the Core 2 Extreme is an amazing chip.
     
  18. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Um, $2,000 New Zealand Dollars, that is. That will only buy you a slightly above average PC.
     
  19. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Your specs just set me back CAD3500 :p
    I mean, CD2E at twelve hundred apiece, SLI motherboard for those two chips to account for 1024 video memory, four gig-sized ram chips, and all... But that's beside the point.

    Actually, a friend of mine went and built a top-of-the-line system just about two years ago, having spent somewhat around that sum. Got himself a 3.2gHz P4, a 6800U, some of that spanky DDR400. Now he's struggling in NWN2 with 12fps average (1280) and no shadows. Yeap. That game's hungry. They said they developed it to run optimally on a middle-of-the-road system from three years ago, but it barely goes at below average options on a top-of-the-line rig from two years ago. Sheesh.
     
  20. Mongerman Gems: 8/31
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    Saved me a boatload of cash as well. considering I was also contemplating building a new gaming rig just for NWN2. Guess I can just buy a laptop and a PS2 then.
     
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