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The AIG Bonuses Scandal

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Death Rabbit, Mar 20, 2009.

  1. martaug Gems: 23/31
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  2. Dalveen

    Dalveen Rimmer gone Bald Veteran

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    Well, half the bonuses are being payed back, which totals around $80million of the $165million payed out. Which is a good start.
     
  3. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    If the executives have to pay back their bonuses, don't you think the following politicians should pay back their 2008 campaign contributions?

    Name Office Total Contributions
    Obama, Barack (D-IL) Senate $104,332
    Dodd, Chris (D-CT) Senate $103,900
    McCain, John (R-AZ) Senate $59,499
    Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) Senate $37,965
    Baucus, Max (D-MT) Senate $24,750
    Romney, Mitt (R) Pres $20,850
    Biden, Joseph R Jr (D-DE) Senate $19,975
    Larson, John B (D-CT) House $19,750
    Sununu, John E (R-NH) Senate $18,500
    Giuliani, Rudolph W (R) Pres $13,200
    Kanjorski, Paul E (D-PA) House $12,000
    Durbin, Dick (D-IL) Senate $11,000
    Perlmutter, Edwin G (D-CO) House $10,500
    Rangel, Charles B (D-NY) House $9,000
    Edwards, John (D) Pres $7,850
    Corker, Bob (R-TN) Senate $7,400
    Smith, Chris (R-NJ) House $6,900
    Neal, Richard E (D-MA) House $6,500
    Rockefeller, Jay (D-WV) Senate $6,500
    Reed, Jack (D-RI) Senate $6,000
    Udall, Mark (D-CO) House $5,800
    Maffei, Dan (D-NY) House $5,000
    Nelson, Bill (D-FL) Senate $5,000
    Warner, Mark (D-VA) Senate $5,000
    Bean, Melissa (D-IL) House $4,750
    Shelby, Richard C (R-AL) Senate $4,500
    Mahoney, Tim (D-FL) House $4,000
    Crowley, Joseph (D-NY) House $3,500
    Fimian, Keith S (R-VA) House $3,300
    Huckabee, Mike (R) Pres $3,300
    Leavitt, David O (R-UT) House $3,000
    Murphy, Chris (D-CT) House $2,800
    Franken, Al (D-MN) Senate $2,700
    Berman, Howard L (D-CA) House $2,500
    Dole, Elizabeth (R-NC) Senate $2,500
    Garrett, Scott (R-NJ) House $2,500
    Cornyn, John (R-TX) Senate $2,300
    Culberson, John (R-TX) House $2,300
    Goode, Gregory Justin (R-IN) House $2,300
    Landrieu, Mary L (D-LA) Senate $2,300
    Lummis, Cynthia Marie (R-WY) House $2,300
    Shays, Christopher (R-CT) House $2,200
    Davis, Tom (R-VA) House $2,000
    Hoyer, Steny H (D-MD) House $2,000
    Inouye, Daniel K (D-HI) Senate $2,000
    Pomeroy, Earl (D-ND) House $2,000
    Visclosky, Pete (D-IN) House $2,000
    Weiner, Anthony D (D-NY) House $2,000
    King, Pete (R-NY) House $1,843
    Gillibrand, Kirsten E (D-NY) House $1,500
    Shaheen, Jeanne (D-NH) Senate $1,500
    Grassley, Chuck (R-IA) Senate $1,250
    Nelson, Ben (D-NE) Senate $1,200
    Wicker, Roger (R-MS) Senate $1,100
    Baker, Richard (R-LA) House $1,000
    Barrasso, John A (R-WY) Senate $1,000
    Bennett, Robert F (R-UT) Senate $1,000
    Brady, Kevin (R-TX) House $1,000
    Capps, Lois (D-CA) House $1,000
    Coleman, Norm (R-MN) Senate $1,000
    Collins, Susan M (R-ME) Senate $1,000
    Cooper, Jim (D-TN) House $1,000
    Donnelly, Joe (D-IN) House $1,000
    Ellsworth, Brad (D-IN) House $1,000
    Engel, Eliot L (D-NY) House $1,000
    Enzi, Mike (R-WY) Senate $1,000
    Gordon, Bart (D-TN) House $1,000
    Graham, Lindsey (R-SC) Senate $1,000
    Harkin, Tom (D-IA) Senate $1,000
    Himes, Jim (D-CT) House $1,000
    Jones, Stephanie Tubbs (D-OH) House $1,000
    Kind, Ron (D-WI) House $1,000
    Kirk, Mark (R-IL) House $1,000
    Lautenberg, Frank R (D-NJ) Senate $1,000
    Lowey, Nita M (D-NY) House $1,000
    Maloney, Carolyn B (D-NY) House $1,000
    McMahon, Michael E (D-NY) House $1,000
    Olson, Pete (R-TX) House $1,000
    Pryor, Mark (D-AR) Senate $1,000
    Salazar, Ken (D-CO) Senate $1,000
    Tiberi, Patrick J (R-OH) House $1,000
    Towns, Edolphus (D-NY) House $1,000
    Wilson, Charlie (D-OH) House $1,000
    Mielke, Daniel Ernest (R-WI) House $900
    Huelskamp, Timothy A (R-KS) House $750
    Laesch, John (D-IL) House $750
    Tinklenberg, Elwyn (D-MN) House $750
    Vilsack, Thomas J (D) Pres $700
    Harrison, Stephen A (D-NY) House $604
    Brownback, Sam (R-KS) Senate $500
    Courtney, Joe (D-CT) House $500
    Crapo, Mike (R-ID) Senate $500
    Davis, Geoff (R-KY) House $500
    Fossella, Vito (R-NY) House $500
    Gilchrest, Wayne T (R-MD) House $500
    Hastings, Alcee L (D-FL) House $500
    Musgrove, Ronnie (D-MS) Senate $500
    Myers, Chris (R-NJ) House $500
    Pelosi, Nancy (D-CA) House $500
    Pierluisi, Pedro (3-PR) $500
     
  4. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    The paperwork and handling of it would probably cost more than collecting that. :rolleyes: What does it amount to, 400 grand altogether? I mean, come on. That's salt on the peanuts compared to the AIG bonuses.
     
  5. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    Ah, now you may be getting it. The amount of the bonuses is an insignificant amount of the total "bailout" money that AIG has received, yet that is all anyone is focusing on. It is all "smoke and mirrors" to distract people from where the money is being spent.
     
  6. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    I don't think that the ones who came to AIG after the massive amount of fraud that went on in that company should be singled out for ridicule by the public. However, those who ran AIG and were a part of the fraud that brought the company down should get an extra bonus -- more jail time added to their prison sentences.
     
  7. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    You lost me on that one. What fraud? Correct me if I'm wrong, but all AIG did was take sub-prime mortgages (which were perfectly legal and encouraged by Fannie and Freddie) and roll them into investment vehicles which were then sold to investors. Didn't AIG meet all of the reporting requirements as set forth by the SEC relating to these investment vehicles? I believe the answer is a resounding "YES". Then to the 20/20 hindsight surprise of no one the sub-prime borrowers weren't able to make their payments and the investments that the investors invested in became worthless (that was a hell of a sentence). When the investments lost their value, AIG was holding all sorts of them as assets and when they properly had to be "marked to market" it caused masses losses in AIG and they were no longer able to maintain the asset ratios that insurance companies are required to do so. Where is the fraud? There was clearly stupidity and foolishness, but since when have those been illegal or fraudlent. I may be wrong, but that was my understanding .
     
  8. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    You are misinformed. They insured a lot of those investments that went bad. So if a customer takes out insurance on an item and pays you for it, but you never set aside the funds to pay for claims -- that's really fraud. A lot of those international banks are holding policies that AIG could not pay on.

    TGS - Just type AIG and Fraud into google and see all the varied fraud investigations, including the FBI, that are active against the company.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2009
  9. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    For the record, I think that giving them the money was a mistake in the first place. But it's not like Bush wouldn't have done exactly the same. In fact, anyone who didn't would have been torpedoed and blamed for thousands of lost jobs and screwing up the economy further. The outrage in consequence of that would very likely have been much worse. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
     
  10. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    That's very true. They are too big to fail. That is why the regulation is needed to prevent companies from becoming so big that they threaten the security of the nation as a whole. That regulation used to be there but was removed - with the best intention - but it turned out to be a costly mistake.
     
  11. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    I will, I just don't have the time right now. I'm still not convinced as they had more than enough assets to cover the policies. The problem started when the assets they had became worthless and therefore they couldn't pay. Now, I will admit that "Cash" is a better asset to have when you are in insurance, but it is the insurance regulators who determine what your "reserve" has to be and what makes it up. You have to remember that some of these investments had very high ratings with Standard and Poors, and/or Moodys.
     
  12. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    There are so many links on AIG fraud that I don't have time to go through them. But this is from its general history on Wiki:

     
  13. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    You don't need to use the "would" qualifier. The first AIG bailouts were done under the Bush administration last fall. In fact, the first two of the four bailouts AIG has received since the fall of last year were under the Bush administration. I'm not sure of the exact dollar amounts (in regards to how much of the originally authorized $700 billion that AIG received), but both administrations have been very generous.
     
  14. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I wanted to bring up the forced resignation of Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM, but wasn't sure if it warrented its own thread, since this is more or less the same topic. Thoughts anyone? (Feel free to start one, guys.)
     
  15. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Good. That's the problem with bailing out companies instead of letting them go into bankruptcy: the CEOs don't make the hard choices they need to make, and expect the government to throw more money at them.
     
  16. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    The guy's an idiot. He should have been fired by the board a long time ago. Wagoner is one of the 'good old boy' examples of why there should be some controls over who sits on corporate boards. Idiots choose other idiots to sit on the board with them (and get rewarded by sitting on another idiot's board) -- these morons then protect each other by hiring from the tainted gene pool and giving ridiculous golden parachutes.

    But what do I know? I'm a chemist, I don't have an MBA.
     
  17. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I agree with both of you. I especially admire the Obama administration for making his immediate dismissal a condition of further government aide. I just wish they'd done that with some of the bankers, but this is certainly the kind of tough love I want to see more of.

    Part of me thinks it's a little scary for the government to involve itself in business decisions like this, and I don't know enough about GM's inner workings to know if getting rid of Wagoner at this time will help or hurt (considering it's been him at the helm these last 10 years, I say its the former). But at the same time, this isn't some otherwise healthy company the government is butting in on - this is a drowning company asking for a handout from the taxpayers to stay afloat. Tough conditions can and should be set, and they should never be painless.
     
  18. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    I'm glad you made that comment on the AIG thread, where we were wondering why the guys there got millions in bonuses. Talk about "pain-free" conditions.

    I don't admire Obama for this at all. I agree with your comments about the CEO, but it seems that there are two standards at work here. He's asking the average blue-collar worker for conditions, but what conditions did he ask of AIG? I reminded of Martaug's comment about Obama being just another "Washington politician." He sure looks like one in this instance.
     
  19. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I don't see it that way. I see the administration doing to GM what should have been done to AIG but they (admittedly) screwed up. They're just getting it right this time. I see the AIG situation as the Obama folks dropping the ball, not favoritism. I think if they had it to do over again they would have handled AIG very differently than they did. In fact, the bad blood between the two parties seems very palpable to me.
     
    Splunge likes this.
  20. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I agree 100% with this. The fact that the ball was dropped with AIG doesn't mean that they should do the same thing going forward. At least they're learning from the previous mistake.
     
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