Taliban

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its a joke.

and its multiple personality disorder.

 

Sorry Tassadar. It is just that I found or find jokes in this toppic very distant. But I'll consider that the next time.

But please try to avoid it. It is a dufficult enough subject even without sarcasm and jokes to decipher.

 

Per the American arrogance portion of this topic: No, the US is not solely responsible for the victory over the Germans in WW2. But as stated before, w/o American intervention, there wouldn't be much of anything at all left over there by the time the Germans and the Russians finished duking it out.

As for these random statements such as Tassadar's about the 1/2 million child casualties, evidence please. If it isn't general knowledge, how about a link? I have trouble taking your word for it.

Dargorn, your reply is a bit murky. "Drop it in a secluded place"?? What the heck are you talking about? If you are referring to bombing the Japanese, I don't believe there is a secluded place on the islands. As for your study of Japanese culture, you haven't said a thing about the Japanese people. So congratulations on your five years of whatever. And don't forget we're talking about 1945, not 2001.

On the Taleban portion of this topic:
I think the US -- and the world -- needs to make an important distinction here. If we are carrying out reprisals on the terrorists responsible for this bombing, all well and good. Let the US continue, with support from the international communities. But if, as has been stated by our government, this is an attack on freedom and democracy itself, and we are beginning a war on terrorism -- hold up. This is not US domain; we need an international league for that. If the world is threatened by terrorism in general, the world needs to deal with it as a unit, not as a bunch of other countries giving the US the go-ahead.

 

Just for your infomation Capstone i have done japanese and studied japanese culture for a five year period and did not prove it because it was not relevent at the time. Just making a comment after you said i know nothing of japanese.

As for all of your posting.
You may think you are on some sort of holy damn crusade for america but i have news for you mate!
This place is called a disscussion forum not a hurt people as much as you can verbaly while calling them names and insulting both their intelligence and life forum.

You have some good points but if you cannot be polite to me when i get things wrong then you can just f**k off! :flames:

 

Ahem. My point in that post to you was that if you have all this knowledge of Japanese, display it. So far you have not done so at all -- you made a statement on our bombing of their cities, but I have not found one word on the Japanese attitude or culture -- e.g., why it was unnecessary for us to bomb them rather than invade. So I found it hard to comprehend why you mentioned your five years' study of Japanese culture -- if you've got it, USE it. Five years is more than I've got; I'd be happy to see some greater insight into Japanese psyche of 1945 than what I posted.

 

here is my simple point.
You say the japanese would fight to the last man.
Well you see it was there culture to do that, as you know. But when we say to the last man we mean to the last man.
Many times before the Japanese had fought til everyone was dead and well beyond the point when they would lose.
So why would they succomb to the americans?
Because looking at their previous actions they should have fought till every last city was destroyed.

Why?
Because the Japanese had a belief that they were invincible and being attacked on this magnetude put their beliefs to pot. They had been bombed by the americans in the normal way for a long time but one bomb able to destroy a city was a different thing altogether.
The only reason they did not surrender after the first bomb was because their generals were protesting.
So by dropping them in remote areas or at the very least a less populated city or military installation they could still how the power of the bomb. And still the emporer would have given up.
That is an opinion anyway and a reasonably widely accepted one but the point i am trying to make is that the americans dropped the bomb on those cities not as atrategy but as a test to see how powerful the bomb was.
That is true otherwise they would not have used two totally different bombs!

 

Capstone this is a thread about Taleban, not a thread to verify that people's background is coherent with their post. If it is so, then we should accompany every post with a CV?

But now that we are drifted into the japanse mentality in the WW2 I think the effect of one bomb was significant enough. It showed Japan what the US-army was capable of.

The first bomb detonated at 8:15 a.m., August 6, 1945 in Hiroshima

The second bomb detonated August 9, 1945.

3 days Capstone. In a warfare spread across countrysides. Somewhat chaos. 3 days was all the US gave the japanese to consider the situation and agree to surrendering. A second bomb could easily have been dropped elsewhere outside a city untill the chain of command had desided to surrender.

Estimated 25,680 japanese died in what I consider a pointless bloodshead.

3 lousy days Capstone. in a worldwar which lasted 5 years. A war that at this point was panic, fear and Chaos. As a guideline; The well-balanced US-government without any lack of domestic communication, not stressed not panicked and not deep in a chaotic warfare, spend an entire day to agree on eradicating terrorism.

I Agree completely with Dargorn. The US made a pointless slaughter of Nagasaki. Even after the second bomb, Japan spent 6 days on agreeing to surrender. the 15th april.

 

Noble, I wasn't trying to verify his background. I realize after rereading that I sounded rude in my top post on this page. I apologize. I just was trying to get people to debate in a more intelligent fashion, rather than simply trading opinions.

As some have stated before, not everything the US has done has been kosher. Could the US have ended the war with just one bomb? In retrospect, probably. Could they have ended it by dropping that bomb in the mountains, rather than in a city? It's certainly possible, although it's also likely that it would not have made the same impact had a few small villages been struck rather than a large city. I'm not sure how secluded they could have gotten it on the crowded Japanese islands anyway.

But at this point in the war, the US wasn't thinking about the minimum that might work. If they were going to use nuclear force, they were going to make their point clear. Wrongheaded or not, it did end the war, and few will disagree that it ended it with less casualties than a ground invasion.

My real point is that what we did to Japan really does not compare at all to what was done to us on September 11. To say we had it coming and we deserve it for our foreign policy is bordering on the extreme.

 

japan had a foreign policy. america didnt like it. america bombed japan.
america has a foreign policy. taliban doesnt like it. terrorists bomb america.
in what way does it not compare?
because america is right and japan is not?
because america believes in freedom and human rights and japan believes in creating a new empire?
japan had beliefs. america had beliefs. the terrorists had beliefs. and all of them are killing one another because they dont believe in the other's beliefs. its all the same. thats why a comparison can be made.

 

nobleman - i apologise, no more jokes - i should know better than to say anything right now - sorry

 

Please excuse my language mods and residents but i think that we should destroy and obliterate the fuckers and render their miserable selves non-existant. Now is not the time to be humane to these fucks. Do you think they will be humane to us? I think not! We should just fucking well obliterate all traces of their presence and ensure that this kind of extremism does not happen again.

 

You want to end all forms of violence and hate? destroy humanity. No humans, no hate. World peace. There you go. Animals kill out of need. Humans always out of emotions, beliefs and religion. There will never be peace as long as there are humans. Accept that, and do what you HAVE to do, not what you WANT to do.

 

KILLING THEM ISN'T GONNA HELP ANYTHING.

C'mon, people, the other Muslims will make martyrs out of the ones the US nukes, and then it's just going to be WORSE!!! What should we.... sorry, the Americans (no, I'm not American) do?? I DON'T KNOW! I'm only human, and young at that.... But I do know what's not going to help anything. But seriously, for all you "Let's kill the fuckers!" people out there, imagine that you are an Afghanistani woman. Or kid. Or person (even the men have to listen to their religions "leaders", I'll bet. Or else). You are oppressed, etc. And you REALLY wish you could be anywhere but there. All of a sudden, a nuke falls on your head. The end.

I'm not even saying that all Muslims are bad or unreasonable. Why should many suffer for the actions of a few?

 

Tiamat is right but wrong at the same time:
The situation is more severe than that!

For the last three years Afganistan has been suffering a drought which has left the entire country with a ridicuously small amount of food.
Many of the people in afganistan don't even know what is going in the world much and certainly do not know anything about Osama Bin Laden.
Now the aid workers who were in the country have been removed so the small supply of food afganistan poor people get is cut off now aswell.
It is reckoned that if the Americans go on some bombing crusade to cleanse the world of these so called *cowards* that well over 1 million people will starve to death and many others will die simply trying to protect their homes from what they think is an enemy attack on them. (they don't know any different you see)
The real thing is that if America gets revenge for this terrorist act they will become worse than the terrorists themselves by indirectly killing millions of people.
I have only found out about this as it has been almost hidden from us. Because of course the USA governement could not put a foot wrong could they?!!
I am sorry but if the Americans go through with this in full knowledge of what wil happen then they will be worse than terrorists and more like Nazi's.

PS For gods sake taluntain it is not like you to not realise a spelling error in the topic title for so long. It is Taliban not taleban. Please change will you?

[This message has been edited by Sir Dargorn (edited September 18, 2001).]

 

Killing the terrorists is going to solve one thing...no more terrorism and danger from them.

And as for the Taleban. Practically all of them support the idea of a jihad. And too be honest, i reckon all these terrorists and extremists should be wiped out and wasted. Hey! Practically 80% of my family is Muslim and they think that this jihad thing against America that the Taleban want to launch is way too wrong. My Aunties and Uncles have been to America and they love it! And the WTC tradedgy upset them alot. Thats why i saw we should obliterate the extremists and holy war crazy people like the taleban that want only their way of life to exist!

 

Indeed, America have to prevent that they do the same what the terrorists did, killing many innocent. In Afghanistan, most people (almost all that live outside Kabul) don't have TV or Radio our Newspapers, and many there don't even know what happened in USA. They are also innocent so they may not die, already enough innocent people died already.

So you can't just bomb cities etc, only military targets. For the rest, the action should be done by land, with places close to the borders with Pakistan and China, and ships on sea as base. Bombing causes casualities, as militair you can choose who you shoot down and who not.

 

Will you please stop blaming the muslims!!!
first of all, it's muslim fanatics/extremists or simply terrorists.

and Poodle, I tihnk that's a load of Bull. Afghanistan is very well aware of what's going on. They're fleeing over the borders in thousands because they fear an attack.
Pakistan have several demonstrations against US to show Taliban support as well.