Tactics4IWD2 Version1.0 Has Come!

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Silverstar: I played Undead Targos.

Undead Targos is harder if (and only if) you don't take advantage of all the extra items that are given all over the place...

Undead Targos is unbalanced. Sure you get to fight harder foes but you conveniently get a magical weapon (the mace that gives you the extra bonuses vs undead) and scrolls to fight them...

This is exactly the kind of silly mistakes a beginner Dungeon Master can do:

"Alright I'm going to make my story more interesting, instead of fighting goblins I will put some wraiths and some Boneguards... Hum the characters are still level 1, how can I give them a chance? I know I'm going to give them a weapon that does +2D6 against undead creatures..."

The paradox is that it gets harder and easier at the same time. When you think about it Undead Targos is flashy and looks challenging (even frustrating) until you find out about the scrolls and the mace then it's no longer so difficult.

Tactics on the other hand makes the game more interesting. I've noticed that the spellcasters use more spells and that they use them more effectively. The first time I faced Phaen with the Tactics mod (I didn't complete that game) I killed him too fast but during my last game I was surprised by some of the spells he started to cast.

Tactics so far is a different experience from the unmodded game (but unlike Undead Targos it's not too different, you can't really tell what has been changed. After fighting Caballus I know that he is different but I'm not entirely sure about what are the exact changes -I don't remember if he had Evasion and Damage reduction for instance).

And I believe that the game is even more interesting because my party is not a powergaming party (I can't wait to get to the caravane's bridge!)

 

OK, I will most definitely play that mod! I have to play it! You managed to beat the first few battles with a non-powergamish party, which is nice. I am having great troubles in forming a party, I keep changing ideas. A recent experience urged me to abandon triple class character idea:I now know it sucks! I will keep four of my party pure, single classes, and MC two of them heavily for fun.

I will be able to play it a few weeks later, when I get the chance to visit home. I will tell my opinion about the mod then!

 

Hmm, this sounds good. I should try it. Does the mod work changes all the way through the whole game? If so, what a huge project.

Actually, can someone remind me how I open a rar file?

 

I don't know how far it goes, I'm sure Phaen and Caballus were different... Torak and Vrek felt the same though, so I can't really tell yet.

Harbourboy to open a rar file you need winrar.

 

Yes, the mod change all the way through the whole game. Torak and Vrek are enhanced, but not very strong as some bosses. Spellcasters have been enhanced greatly.

Some SPOILERS
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I removed Phaen's robe and staff from him. If you want them, you must spare Phaen at first and fight him in the pallisade battle.

Emma Moonblade has also been enhanced. You can loot some items(no fat loots) from her, if you want.

[ November 23, 2006, 02:15: Message edited by: Tal Rasha ]

 

We can spare Phaen? That's fantastic! I thought you didn't add any dialogue options to the game?

 

No, I didn't add any dialogue options to the game. I mean you happened not noticing that cottage, and not meeting him.

 

SPOILERS

So i guess its you i have to "thank" for the gray hairs i've got saving the Shaengarne Bridge last night.

I deed save the bridge a couple of times a few years ago durring my other IWD2 runs so i thought i knew what to expect - pleasure cruise. Turned everybody invisible and went for the ogre sabotagers. Xuki smells the invisible party (the script fires when you have a character close enough ) and she begins the recital - mirror image, shield , lightning, animate dead (greater bonelords) + .... On the first attept she was cought in my webs and failed manny of her spells - the fallowing attempts however (they where many ) :"Xuki unafected by web", "Xuki unafected by entagle". The entagle part mistery was solved after she died and dropped some boots with immunity to entagle. High AC , high reflex and WILL saves . It was hoppless. The thing that saved me was two scrolls of boiling blood i've got from the Undead Targos - Cabalus and Sullibac that force Fortitude save or turn Berserk. She has very low fortitude saves and it will eventualy end up disregarding her deadly spells and charging my tanks in melee. She still is(was) very hard to hit in melee by my tanks and archer but eventualy i managed to finnish her with a flaming potion delivering the final 2 points of damage. With her dead the battle was still challanging but winnable. I keept spamming web and killed the druids,bugbears, snakes, orcs and every body else with ranged weapons.
Maybe it was because of the low level of my party (3-4) Deep Gnomes and Drows and that i was having such a hard time hitting her in melee . Guess she could have been stun fisted by the monk easely( fort save) after the images wore off if he could hit her more often.

Il hope the rest of the battles are going to be so challangeing.

Because you don't give detailed explanations of what tactics does its hard for me to tell how much of the challange comes from the mod and how much from my lack-of-ability and poorly chosen party. However i did played the game a few years back i do remember cruising trough this batlle. It was with a diffrent party but still....

 

Without buffs, she only has a AC of 17. But she will buff herself with Armor and Shield, which gives her +11 AC bonus. Now her AC is 28, and plus Mirror Image, it was why you could hardly hit her in melee.
If you could dispel her, it would be much easier for you, but you should be quick, because she would re-buff herself again soon.
And "Xuki unafected by web", this might be because of the protection by Minor Globe of Invulnerability.

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This is one of the toughest battles, don't be scared and keep going on, though it is not the toughest.

 

my tanks only had around +10~11 attack bonus (str,buffs,items,bard counted in) - kindda hard to touch AC 28 with that . could only cast a few lvl 2 spells - no dispell.

 

Oooooo now now I must play this mod! Cool, AC 28 mage! I absolutely LOVE how it sounds like!

I want to play too!

Next Friday...I may make a visit to my home! AND I will play your mod non-stop, so it seems! I am now busy devising the most powerful (but also fun) party combination possible....

 

It looked from the animation like she was using Mage Armor at first (and since you said +4, I guess it was). Shield and Mage Armor both add Armor type AC, so only Shield should count for +7, not +11. That ends up being 24 AC, not 28.

I'm more and more regretting not taking a full fledged Bane cleric as I go. That battle would've been much easier with a few casts of 20+ DC Rigid Thinking at my disposal.

[ November 29, 2006, 22:50: Message edited by: Mokona=Modoki ]

 

24 AC would have been still hard to hit by my men - and DG full fledged Bane cleric was only lvl 3 or 4 so he couldn't cast lvl 3 spells, however she had very high will saves - nothing i tried with will save worked on her ...Miscast Magic - lvl cleric uses same Will save but with extra -2 penalty..

Beltyn’s Burning Blood (sorc/wiz lvl4) uses fort save so works much better against casters (and its the spell that made me choose Great Fortitude feat for my Monk ) - i was lucky saving the two scrolls from Caballus/Sullibac.

[ November 30, 2006, 05:40: Message edited by: el M ]

 

Interestingly enough, you've hit one of the few examples where an arcane user has very similar fortitude and will saves (+8 and +10, respectively, for Xuki, though half elf bonus brings the will save vs. enchantment to +12), but since your spell worked, congratulations.

[ November 30, 2006, 06:33: Message edited by: Mokona=Modoki ]

 

SPOILERS

i did remember her having very low(bad) fortitude saves and high will(never failed any)


you made me curious enough to use near infinity on her - lvl 6 generalist wizard half-elf fort save 2 reflex save 2 will save 5. Beeing a wizard she gets will save bonus

The saves are probably affected by ablity scores and items.

has both low CON(10) and WIS(12).

Prety high diffrence between WILL and CON saves
to me .

AND The manual sayz :

Beltyn’s Burning Blood (Necromancy)
Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Range: Sight of Caster
Duration: 1 round/2 levels Casting Time: 4
Area of Effect: 1 creature Saving Throw: Fortitude negates

and not enchantment.

However MiscastMagic(Clr3) & RigidThinking(Clr3,Bane3) are both enchantment spells and both check vs. WILL save.

Also "Mage Armor" will add 4 ARMOR bonus.
"Shield" will add +7 ARMOR- bonus
The ARMOR bonuses do not add - so its indeed +7 ARMOR bonus
"Shield" also give +3 to all Reflex saves.

Bottom line - fortitude saves are her soft spot.

and having a scroll or two of "Beltyn’s Burning Blood " when you meet the b@#$ its shure going to come handy.

 

And if you look at her base AC, you'll see 12. You'll see 14 for her dex, so that's 14 AC without buffs, which contradicts what Tal Rasha told us. If you look at her spells list, you'll see that she doesn't have Animate Dead, Improved Invisibility, Shield, or Minor Globe of Invulnerability, which contradicts what you said she used on you. Why? Because you are looking at the wrong version of Xuki.

The correct version of Xuki has 16 dex, 12 con, and 10 wis, with 7 reflex save, 7 fortitude save, and 10 will save. Install the tactics mod and open up the CHITIN.KEY file if you don't see this. That's 10 reflex, 8 fortitude, and 10 will in general, before buffs or taking into account the +2 save vs. enchantment half-elf bonus. You only have 10% more chance of hitting her with a fortitude save spell than with a will save spell, assuming neither is of the enchantment school, causes sleep, or has innate DC penalties/bonuses. Dispel, for example, is a will save spell and works quite well on her.

Let me tell you the real reason your scroll worked:

Beltyn’s Burning Blood (Necromancy)
Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Range: Sight of Caster
Duration: 1 round/2 levels Casting Time: 4
Area of Effect: 1 creature Saving Throw: Fortitude negates

 

arrrrrr...
she made like 20 will saves in a row - never failed one. with two catings of that sroll she always went berserk eventualy. I play with rolls feedback - fortitude saving throw was lower than the will one. When i get home i will invetigate this further..

anyway using magic missle to remove the mirror image and sunscorch and other damage spells until she fires up minor globe of invulnerability and then a couple of flaming/lamp oils(in abundance in the area ) i think it is possible to kill her without using melee, nor force her to fail a saving throw.

 

Why are you bothering to tell us this information? Of course she's going to need less saving throw roll to save against your L4 spell than the L1-2 will save spells (probably of the enchantment school) that you are throwing against her.

As for burning blood:
10 (base)+5 (int/cha bonus)+4 (level)=19
She has +8 fortitude save, so she needs 11 or higher out of 20 to save against it. The expected number of successes in any given two casts is one. The chance of her making both saving throws is less than 1/4.

[ November 30, 2006, 10:08: Message edited by: Mokona=Modoki ]

 

Magic Missile won't help, Shield prevents that (and she is smart enough to buff herself when her protections fail ).

Every character in my party could sneak so I got into position, backstabbed her with my fulltime Rogue and eventually my tank took her down while the rest of the party was busy with her henchmen.

Bottom line it's a very nice fight, it's not easy but it can be done.

 

she casts mirror image with all my characters invisible before i get a chance to get close for backstab. She has mirror image on before i can get a char next to her.

i've meant magic missles until she puts shield up
(there is a small window of oportunity here - getting rid of images before shield is a big help)

whatever damage spells until she puts minor globe of invulnerability..

flaming potions after that

melee from tanks during all the stages - u might just get a lucky critical.

*this is for low lvl chars(3-4) - with better bab or spells it should be easyer.


@Mokona=Modoki
i'm just getting familiar with the way IWD2 tics and tacs (such as calculating diffrent spells DC is it - 10+spell lvl + caster casting modifier + extras (some spells force sase at +x or -y ex. SLOW -2 )+class extra(see DM of Bane)+feats -spell focus); racial/class exact saving throws bonus vs spell of certain schools, and many other inner workings of the game. It's work in progress.

Thank you for pointing out the reson my Burning Blood was harder resisted by Xuki than lower level, enchant spells - it was not obvious to me when i fought her and it might not be so clear to other forum users( usefull ).

[ November 30, 2006, 11:58: Message edited by: el M ]