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Stupid "strategies"

Discussion in 'BG2: Shadows of Amn (Classic)' started by Rakanishu, Dec 19, 2000.

  1. Septic Yogurt Gems: 9/31
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    Umm, its the NPCs Stupid assed idea to follow you.

    Roleplaying arguments can be taken thousands of miles each way and never end, debates like this never end. It will eventually turn to "well, the dragon chose to breath in the cloudkill!"
     
  2. Sylvus Moonbow Gems: 21/31
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    Oh?

    "And the 2 year old pulled the trigger!"

    It's a very weak arguement and people know it but they use it anyhow.

    The real weakness comes from those people who use these types of battle tactics and strategies, not the arguements themselves because they simply can't win any other way.

    Anyone who does that should ask themselves, why are they running with their tail between their legs?

    Simple answer. They can't win any other way. It's a saying I've read time and again and quite frankly, is always stated as such by those who try to defend their own weakness and failure in battle.

    Funny thing. Many of them play Paladins.

    Syl...

    [This message has been edited by Sylvus Moonbow (edited December 21, 2000).]
     
  3. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Lord Bane, it's supposed to be GMT+1 (set after my time, not where the server is actually located), but the clock is also 15 minutes ahead.
    And trying to convince an admin to set the clock right turned out to be about as productive as teaching a squirrel how to land a jumbo-jet.
    So I guess we're stuck in the future. :p

    [This message has been edited by Taluntain (edited December 21, 2000).]
     
  4. Rasalgethi Gems: 5/31
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    About sleeping, I think I had a bug in my first game because only my main characters suffered from not sleeping. I don't know why because in my second game, all my characters according to their constitution get tired after a while.

    So, I hadn't to support their complaints :). But, yes some fights were hard to finnish, especially against Jon, and honestly I abandon this party during the last fight, because my characters were too low level... and my fingers wanted to begin a True game with all controlled PCs :D. So, I stopped that game to begin a new one.

    The stats are not modified when you don't sleep, and I didn't noticed that your Thaco and ST were modified, maybe yes but not much.
     
  5. Sorl Guest

    Hiding in shadows was near impossible for me when my characters were tired. I guess the yawning must have given them away.
     
  6. Sir Phapylon Gems: 2/31
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    Fatigue only penalizes your party by -1 to luck. Luck affects all your party's
    rolls, such as THAC0 and Saving Throws, Damage, etc. Your luck gets worse the longer you go without resting, but i really dont know haw low you can reach...
     
  7. Cuckoo Gems: 3/31
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    Sylvus, if you were really in that fantasy setting, fighting for your life and for the lives of your companions, you'd take advantage of Cloudkill or any other tactic that promised the maximum amount of damage to your foes and the least amount of risk to your party. You'd try to lure out strong enemies one by one to kill them, because you probably would know from experience or even common sense that among the most basic strategies in combat is "divide and conquer." You'd stay the hell out of reach of any golems that you could, and you'd gladly take advantage of any stupid tendencies they have. If you saw Bohdi and recognized her as a vampire, I'd think that at least Minsc would want to chop first, ask questions later; after all, vampires are his racial enemy, are they not? I don't think he would want to stand there and listen to her talk at all.

    But I think you're right about the traps around the dragon...not likely to happen.
     
  8. Lord Bane Gems: 10/31
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    Yes, but Syl meant the strategy of pounding an enemey with Cloudkills, knowing he won't attack you. THAT is very unlikely in a real adventure, don't you agree ? And yes, when you fight a group of monsters, the "divide & conquer"-tactic might work, but normally when you face a group of NPC's, you'd expect them to support each other, no ? And finally, conceded, it's normal that Minsc immediately charges, but in a 'real' adventure, wouldn't Bodhi (or any other monster) notice his clearly offensive intentions, and skip the talking herself (him-/it-) ?

    Oh yes, one final question : how big is such a Cloudkill-cloud (gee that sounds silly :) ) actually ? I know it's a 20' radius, but how high does it reach ? 6' ? 12' ? Is it a cubic area, thus 20' ? Still, my point here is, shouldn't a dragon from the size we face in BG2 be invulnerable to Cloudkill ? Surely his scales stop the poison from affecting his body, and he surely is big enough to keep his head above the cloud, thus preventing from inhaling it. Not to mention that a beast of that size should be able to keep his breath for quite a while.

    Just my two cents ;)
     
  9. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    [​IMG] Ah yes... But the only damage it does to the dragon is 1d10 of poison every round to which there is no save. Plus, holding one's breath has no effect on the lethality of the spell, so theoretically dragons should be just as wounrable to it as any other creatures.

    [This message has been edited by Taluntain (edited December 30, 2000).]
     
  10. Divine Shadow Gems: 10/31
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    If you are stuck and can't get further
    then I don't think it is wrong to use
    such strategies. And all generals do.
    For example the battle between the
    danish nobles and the peasant rebels.
    The rebel general sets up his army on
    wet ground so when the knights charge
    their horses are stuck in the mud and
    the peasant's kill them without trouble.
    An example from the real life.
     
  11. Tim..? Gems: 1/31
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    [​IMG] Syl, I have been reading your posts both on this and other groups. I'm intrigued-you claim to enjoy video games, and you speak much like a gm/dm/referee of paper games, and you seem to have a modicum of intelligence, however....

    1. You talk about the game being boring and leading you around "like a puppy." You do realize that the characters you encounter in a game do not have a real ai to speak of, therefore they are running a prewritten stymulus/response script. It is a limitation of the current technology. Just as the tactics are.

    1. You speak of the tactics of defeating some of these monsters as "cheats." I find that quite amusing. Yes, it is not like the p&p, but then when you talk to a character in a crpg you are dealing with a stymulus/ response script as well as actions. There are current limitations of the technology that we have to deal with. The dragon is not in fact going to just fall on you and squish you, doing just as fatal damage without any considerable damage to itself other than that one little poke from you that it will regenerate shortly. The dragon is programmed to fight you somewhat "manno a manno." In this way the dragon has a chance, but so do you.(Really, have you ever been able to defeat a very old dragon, as Fiirkraag suggests he is, with a group of less than 15th level characters? If you have your p&p is a little on the low level.)

    2. Another limitation you are dealing with is the fact that the game is not run like a p&p rpg because-it isn't,either on the part of the players or the game. The players are going to want a game that is challenging so that occasionally there is something that requires a restart. Just last week while playing a p&p game we came to what was almost certainly the "big room." I turned to the gm and told him I wanted to save the game here. If you think that everytime someone uses a different tactic to defeat something in a crpg is "cheap" then your save file must be very small indeed and I congratulate you on running through the entire game without once loading a saved game after a character death. Because if you haven't done just that, you are just as guilty of "cheating, exploiting," or having "cheap bills" in your pocket.

    Look I don't want to be accused of being a flamer here, but your posts consistently seem to hack on this game as being somewhat pedantic. It is probably one of the better games out there as far as the crpg universe goes. It has great visuals, interesting story-line, in the form of the actual story as well as the books you find, and a pretty good ai engine. If you want that dynamic interaction you get with p&p then you will have to wait until NWN or you can go play evercrack. Until then when you purchase a peice of software don't expect something that it can't possibly have...

    ...yet...
     
  12. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    [​IMG] Why Syl, you seem to be attracting increasing fire from the newbies; whatever will you do? LOL!
     
  13. Sylvus Moonbow Gems: 21/31
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    Can't please everyone.

    Syl...
     
  14. Amon-Ra Gems: 10/31
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    Don't try. Just a thought...

    Examining the "that which does not kill you only makes you stronger" effect, I would say that nothing Syl has done has been "detrimental". If he attacks the game, whether justified or not it is his opinion to which he is entitled. Thus we need only examine the effect on the board community:

    Those who enjoy the game will reinforce their position, citing all of the reasons for which it is a good game, and gain a greater appreciation of it.

    Those who are borderline get a chance to hear the arguments of both sides and consider them equally and decide for themself if it is worth playing a dozen times.

    Those who don't, well, continue not liking it.

    I don't think Syl is saying he has always hated the game. Speaking from experience, after beating it nearly a dozen times, it gets old and predictable. Syl is somewhat disgruntled at the lack of variety, (though it is better than most else out there) and is probably urgently awaiting the multiverse that is NWN and server setups like ALFA.

    Amon-Ra
     
  15. Magus Gems: 1/31
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    Silver Dragon: Many creatures will band together when one of them sees you. The Kuo-toans were a good example. You attack one and they all sprint at you and start hacking your party to bits... :D Those Kuo-toan mages were especially bothersome...they just don't want to die!
     
  16. Drakron Du´Dark Gems: 1/31
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    well, this go like this...
    I dont use the wand of cloudkill because I use diferent types of stategies. The Red Dragon is (acording to my "monstrous Manual") just a adult (that is what the XP say) and I never heard of a Dragon going up levels to adjust to yours.He is hard but I found out ways to kill him without using Fake talk our wands of cloudkill. But If I die ,well I just have to restart the game, that can also be called cheating since you cant do that in "real live" well this is not real live.
    A golem have (also from the "Monstrous Manual") o int, that makes Minsc a genius, They follow orders, usually "guard this Chest and kill all intrudes" well that is what he is going to do, If he sees a door he cant fit in, with 0 int he is not going to find another door were he is going to fit because Golems do not think.
    The monsters are very well done in this game, there are faults but more good thing that bad things.
    there is a something that is called "Balance" if things were too dificult,well who wanted to play the game.For me the game is hard, what do you all whant, That the Overgod AO comes to the prime to kill you all, Is that it.
    Read (or Buy) the books that have the rules then we will talk.
     
  17. Amon-Ra Gems: 10/31
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    Was that last line an insult?
    If so, learn to speak english, and we'll talk.

    I have, and have read, most if not all of the core texts and have been playing D&D for a long while, so let's talk.

    Your understanding of Intelligence is purely sickening. Golems WILL find another door, granted it coincides with their command. If I told a golem to chase you, and you ran through a small door, it would be able to go to through the larger door and chase you. They have no intelligence score, thus they know nothing other than what they can percieve. I mean, if they cannot think, how can they know where to swing? Simple. They have a Wisdom score. This allows them to reason, predict, move to block passage, and interpret commands. If a golem saw 2 passages, one blocked and one not, it would be able to choose the unblocked passage due to the fact it has a measurable Wisdom score. In 3rd ed. a Golem has 11 Wisdom, the same as the average human.

    Amon-Ra
     
  18. Elenias Nal'nair Gems: 5/31
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    plz. Amon-Ra relax! No need to start the flaming again (haven't seen Shura for a while). Do you consider answering a maybe insult with a real ugly one is a good idea?
    There's no need for this attitude or flaming non-native speakers. All the people and even many from outside the US come here for a high-quality-M'board and for quality posting. No reason to break up with this.

    btw. concerning the topic: The posters at GameBanshee's are aware of this thread and are really pissed...that must have happend...or?
     
  19. Drakron Du´Dark Gems: 1/31
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    Really, well his is 2nd edicion rule by the way.And golems are very dumb,that is way to balance the very high STR that they have, a golem may stop if the intruder leave the room if that was in his original orders. the only dumb person may be the wizard because he have put him in a place were he is stuck.
    Why are you acting like this, do you like to push people around? are you a bully? if not. you look like one pointing my error.do you like if i check ever message that you make and see if you made a mistake and rub your nose in It?dont think so.
     
  20. Shura Gems: 25/31
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    Hey Amon, it's only a game, take it easy and let people use the reload function, shadowkeeper and cloudkills if they want to. It's their CD and I'm sure they have as much fun doing that as you have 'roleplaying'. Chill out, man. :D
    And Dru dark, Amon's like that, so don't worry about it. If you don't like his posts, don't read them. Continue posting your 'exploitative' strategies. I, for one, approve of any tatics, 'powergaming' or 'roleplaying'. So you chill out too.
    If anyone says that us 'powergamers' should go and play diablo instead, ignore them, because they can't storm into our residences and confiscate our copies of BG2, nor can they persuade Sorcerer to ban us from making 'powergaming' posts.
    :D :D :D smiley!!
     
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