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Stupid "strategies"

Discussion in 'BG2: Shadows of Amn (Classic)' started by Rakanishu, Dec 19, 2000.

  1. Kinslayer Gems: 1/31
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    Syl,

    Your comment of "you'll do no such thing in real life" I dont think is fair. What i meant by it was in terms of role-playing how would you (or your character) really handle it. By negating the real-life aspect you are dismissing the whole arguement without addressing its merit. Lets take it on as a role-playing issue.

    While it may be perfectly accurate that your half-orc Barbarian would just run straight at the golem and attack, that would not be accurate for my character, a blade. He would rely on his best skills and since his normal bardic skills might not be much help against a golem, he would use his wits to come up with another way.

    So to say that your way is right and others is wrong is to deny the basic tenet of role-playing, that no character is alike.

    Trust me if I encountered a golem on the other side of a door in real life, i wouldnt be worried about killing him, I would be running! I dont think there would be anything important enough on the other side of him for me to attempt that!!
     
  2. Sylvus Moonbow Gems: 21/31
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    Why do you speak as if you travel alone?

    Grub in no way could take on half of the more powerful creatures on alone and I heavily rely on my party and those who are part of it to all come together like a perfect puzzle and be part of the entire battle.

    Your Blade character may not be as tough up front, but there are plenty others who are. Anomen, Minsc, Valygar, Keldorn, Korgan to name a few who can stand toe to toe with many foul beasts while the rest of the party does what they have to do.

    None of my kills on any tough opponent is that of Grub alone.

    In no way was I low balling anyones own character but rather the strategy, tactics in general that were posted as such on another site (as mentioned in the original post). I disagree with them and posted my own, adding to the growing list of things I wouldn't do in my game.

    Wits are one thing, using exploits is another and I'm not saying you use them either, nor anyone else for that matter.

    For me personally, and I will say it again, this list are considered exploits by myself and in no way would I ever use them in the game to win any type of battle, regardless of how strong or weak my main character is.

    All battles in BG2 are beatable, it's just a matter of knowing what's good and what isn't and using exploits will never teach you that.

    1) Casting Cloudkill on a dragon while he can't see you because of the fog of war. Ditto for ANY creatures.

    2) Killing a Golem when he's stuck in the doorway with ranged weapons.

    3) Setting traps around dragons or other powerful creatures, rest, set traps again, rest, set off the traps.

    4) Attacking any creature of power or in general when it's still blue or going into dialog mode.

    5) Running down stairs and having enemies follow you 1 at a time.

    Otherwise, all the posts in this thread have been very original in terms of dealing with the adversary, even yours.

    Syl...
     
  3. Silver Dragon Gems: 5/31
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    Sorry, but I only agree with 1) and 3) there. As said before on the board, the golom is only programed to kill, it's so dumb it jams itself in the door. As for attacking neutral enemies, it's called a surprise attack, and when you draw out creatures one at a time, why rush in, when you can take the easy way. I don't know what your thinking, are you overly brave or just stupid.
     
  4. Rasalgethi Gems: 5/31
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    Syl, I must disagree with the 4th point. When you play an evil party, you always talk before fighting ??? Not me :), I come closed to my blue enemies with a nice face then kill them. I think it is the evil way, well very evil ok ;).
     
  5. Fergus Gems: 7/31
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    [​IMG] Cheers Desperado but does the intelligence drain not show on you character as a level drain or experience drain ?
    My character had neither and no other curse symbols on him so maybe I had to go to the characters properties to see the effect of the fight but that seems wierd and not user friendly.

    Liches do follow you as experienced by the one in the gate area who when I used the run away tactic followed me out to the inn but by this time his defences were down and I could kill him. (I was too low a level for that fight)
     
  6. Sylvus Moonbow Gems: 21/31
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    How can it be a surprise attack if you don't know first hand that you'll be attacked to begin with?

    So there I was, walking minding my own business with my companions when I was approached by a beautiful woman. Her eyes sparkled in the light and her smile dazled my heart. We talked for awhile, laughed even shared a few tears.

    Then she attacked us all!

    So what...Am I to reload the game and attack her before she attacks me because now I know what she's all about? LOL!

    Or what, I die and reload the game and attack her before the dialog begins? Hmm...If I did this I'd feel my pockets filling up with cheap bills. Not for me at all.

    "and when you draw out creatures one at a time, why rush in, when you can take the easy way."

    The easy way? There's another saying for this. It's called exploiting the game. ;)

    Tell me something. Minsc darts ahead by himself to face an entire group of Drow, they out number him 10 to 1. You can hear the battle, you can hear him wince in pain and he calls for assistance.

    Of course, with what you just said, Minsc shouldn't get any help at all because the Drow are only taking the easy way out by taking him on 1 on 1 right? So you let Minsc die by himself?

    Odds are you rush in to save him. Odds are you'd do this for anyone in your party.

    I think from now on, best you let Aerie or Jaheira go face these large groups by themselves. Heck, you use the "lead the enemy 1 by 1" to you, it's only fair that you return the favour once in awhile and unexploit this exploit.

    Syl...


    [This message has been edited by Sylvus Moonbow (edited December 20, 2000).]
     
  7. Kinslayer Gems: 1/31
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    Point well taken Syl, but my Blade is the leader and he does often decide the tactics the group will use and if that means killing a Golem from a distance to avoid any party injuries, then so be it. Minsc may not be the smartest character, but he can listen to strategy. Would he expose Boo to unneccessary danger? "Se battle Boo, run Boo run!"

    As far as exploits I agree with all of your points except the Golem one. I dont believe that is an exploit, I think it is in the natural behavoir of the creature to act that way, so it is only natural for me to "exploit" it's weakness--not poor AI.

    Otherwise I think we are on the same page on this one.
     
  8. desperado Gems: 3/31
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    Fergus: When an Illithid have drain your intelligence you should have a symbol saying something like "statistic drained" on your character. But if your character have only an intelligence of 6 or less he will die before you notice it.
     
  9. Sir Belisarius

    Sir Belisarius Viconia's Boy Toy Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Sylvus - I love the passion! I agree with you...I do however use my thief while hiding in shadows to scout out areas ahead by alternating Hide/Find Traps.

    If I run into something that initiates dialog even when my thief is invisible (and supposedly non-detectable) then I usually bring my party up quick!

    Or I'll try to pick the most defensible position (like outside a door or something to protect my casters) and move my party into a position that benefits my party's strengths. But I wouldn't necessarily call that exploiting the game.
     
  10. Rakanishu Gems: 12/31
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    Well.....I did beat up on the Adamantite and Iron Golems from passageways....but that's only because my party was too weak to take them and the other golems on. But I didn't need a "strategy" guide to tell me that. Anybody who can't think of this cheese on his own should be smacked (of course with them knowing that spears and the like have longer reach first! :D ).

    In any case, I saw the Golems as mere aberrant, terrifying pieces of animated matter standing in my way. If they interacted more I would probably have respected them.

    And in fact, I do lure enemies, although not with the express intent of one-by-one. I guess that I just look for the easy way out of a hard encounter. That being said though, I won't commit anything I deem to be cheap.
     
  11. Rakanishu Gems: 12/31
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    By the way, why is it that the creatures I try to kill in doorways are immune to ranged weapons? Like the Otyugh and all the golems I used this trick on!

    Grrr! Grumble grumble
     
  12. Rasalgethi Gems: 5/31
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    Syl, I totally agree with the second point, 1 to 1 fight... not realistic, indeed.

    But, about the first remark, if (and I say if) I play an evil (and chaotic) party, and encounter a creature that allows me to come closed, I don't hesitate to get closed and kill that one, even in blue. You talked about that girl coming near you, yes it's a VERY good point... I could be THAT girl if I play this kind of party. So, if the girl did that to you, why you cannot have the same behavior with other creatures ?? It's a typical chaotic evil behavior : killing for pleasure without any particular reason, wrong place and wrong time for the victim.

    Btw, I agree with you if you play a good party, it's not a very good behavior ;). But, even in this case, you cannot imagine that you meet an AAAAAWFUL creature and you attack first ?? Well, I guess I can imagine that, fear, preconception... I think only true Paladins can wait to be bashed first before attacking, isn't it ?
     
  13. Silver Dragon Gems: 5/31
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    Alright maybe I was wrong about leading a monster out one by one. That should be fixed in BG3. The advertisments before BG2 came out said that the monsters acted like a team. The only way they act like a team is to not kill each other.
     
  14. Draco Vlasavius Gems: 11/31
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    I'm in SOLID agreement with the thinking that when role playing, your strategies revolve around your main character & party. Brute force, Wits, Cleverness and Surprise are all tactics. What you lack in one area you may be able to tap into another and achieve 'success'. Not all are Conan's. Not all are Elminster's. Not all are Drizzt's. Not all are Thor's or Loki's. Nor would they approach any battle similarly. But they would achieve success by using Brute force and/or Cleverness and/or Surprise and/or cunning or the like. Nor should we find fault with their approach to battles because to each his own. When I play a lowlife Thief… there is no honor among thieves and therefore I use the approach ‘by any means available BABY!’ -can we say ‘Backstab’? But that would certainly not be the case if I was playing a Holy man. Like a Cleric or Monk.

    I believe some may use less ‘popular’ and ‘despised’ tactics like Cloudkill because they’ve never developed any successful tactics that are true to their party or alignment. Others use Cloudkill perhaps because they are lazy. Ahem… I may have done that once or twice myself if I recall. But only in my first game of BG2 :)
     
  15. Shura Gems: 25/31
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    I really can't be bothered to fight orcs, hobgoblins, gnolls, goblin and kobolds anymore so a quick Cloudkill or fireball into the fog of war is one of my favourite tatics.
     
  16. Sorl Guest

    daystar lych:
    I got in with a lvl9-10 party and immediatly had second thoughts about it, so made an ordered retreat, the lych followed. I clobbered him until he started to cast then I changed the room again, this interrupted his spells.
    I don't think it's an exploit since spellcasting on people you can't see is difficult (also creating monsters which can't follow to other rooms isn't very sensible, so why waste the time). He followed me, so you can't blame ultra low AI.

    Cloudkill: Yeah I used it once by now (on the biggest mindflayer group, and all it got me was killed very quickly by them nasty critters, on try 3 I just charged in invisible with my three captured mindflayers attacking first (undiziplined loosers) and drawing most enemy fire towards them and the battle was over pretty quickly.

    Traps: without traps most rouges loose lots of value. Setting two or three in front of the shadow dragon is acceptable, (consider it as a minefield, if the dragon is too arogant to go around it, his problem not mine). I used traps also on the umber hulks in the keep (one for each hulk cause I like to play fast (sleep only when tired _and_ all daily resources are used up) (brag: I shiped in from Athkatla got through the asylum, the underwater city and killed the biggest group of mind flayers without needing rest))

    Singling out enemies: in the guarded compund I got upstaires and immediatly under attack, so I fled to one of the backward rooms (no map change) only the tanks followed, and because I was speeded they lost track of me and searched the rooms individually; thus they fell. They did come to the each others help but too late, so I don't htink it's an exploit.

    Having all in the party fight: for low str, con, dex spellcasters that's adapting to BGII AI (less than ingenious).

    Arrows (ranged spells): Having an invisible lookout who calls the targets for the artillery seems to be acceptable to me. Staying undetected in BGII is so much more difficult than in BGI, I rate it as a high risk project. If the victim detects the spy it can get at him and whill then see the archers as well. (I do consider fog of death from fog of war unenjoyful)

    Golems: killing braindead creatures in a non braindead way (all's been said)
     
  17. Rasalgethi Gems: 5/31
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    Sorl, about sleeping, you can finnish the game without sleeping. I did that for my first game. At this point, you use all the scrolls / potions you get, no need of scrollcases. And, well, ok, you sleep in the ship between the City and Brynnlaw, but you don't have the choice :). And, using this strategy you only do needed quests, no more.
     
  18. Sorl Guest

    [​IMG] despite of what Viconia sais I'm not a slaver. I let my guys/gals sleep when they've done their job. I just like to play fast and don't let them sleep after every fight to fill up spells et al.

    ??? playing the whole game wihout sleep ???
    Doesn't the exhaustion malus on saving throws (and everything else )accumulate and make fighting near impossible???
     
  19. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Well I find their constant yawning and complaints about not resting much more of an obstacle than any other minuses they might have suffered...
    I don't think I ever noticed them fighting any less proficiently because of sleep depravation though.
     
  20. Lord Bane Gems: 10/31
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    [​IMG] Hmm, I'm not sure how it's implemented in BG2, but in IWD your main stats really decreased if you stay fatigued for too long (or after each Haste-spell). Both THACO as AC rise quickly, and I also seem to recall that some saving throws get worse.

    Btw, what is bothering me for quite some time now, what timezone is this forum using ? To me it seems something like GMT+1.15 or such. Any ideas ?
     
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