Song of Cheese

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If you're not going to sing WCotS, don't even bother with a Bard. It's the only thing that makes them worthwhile.

 

Come on, I wouldn't go as far as saying that! First of all, Bards seem to get more "exclusive" dialogues than other classes. Little things that end up giving more XP to your party (singing a song in a tavern, understanding that weird thing the sea elf is singing, and so on).

I don't use the other 2 HoW bard songs a lot, but the default one is preety useful @the start of the game, where that +1 to hit and everything else might make a difference.

They also work great as backup spellcasters. Usually My Mage would be a Diviner and then my Bard would learn every spell the Diviner was not allowed to. Of course she'd only go up to 6th level, but IWD parties need not to rely on arcane magic as heavily as a BG2 party needs, IMHO.

War chant of Sith rules. Might be the song of cheese, but from the 3rd edition things HoW implemments, it's not the cheesier. I'd give that award to the Sneak Attack feature (not that I don't use it... heh)

 

Skald, I think you'd get a heckuva lot more out of a Mage/Thief than a Bard if the songs are crap. And that first song really is crap.

 

This is pure, unadulterated . In the early levels, that first bard song helps a lot (I'm level 5 & 6 or so and the song still helps more than a M/T would). Some extra Magic Missiles don't matter much in comparison to your tanks and archers tearing through groups of 20 like wet tissue paper (and I have made the comparison between singing and spell-slinging in the exact same situation, so don't even go there). In the later levels, the bard's got more they're able to do (spells, instruments, etc.), and can lay off the singing a bit.

Another thing you're totally forgetting is the dialogue options that a bard opens up. Hell, even item options if what someone said in another thread is true. Plus, there's always being able to ignore the pickpocketing skill with your thief, though you might do that anyway if you don't mind reloading 50 times.

 

Comparing the bard with a mage/thief is crap.
Standard parties with a bard already have a thief, who would take a second thief as replacement ?

A far more powerful character like fighter/illusionist is the more realistic choice for comparison.

At level1 he can already already have 2.5 attacks/round doing 5-10 missile damage each even with standard composite bow and arrows.

The bard song adds about 8-10 to the missile damage the other party members do per round, more than you'd exspect the shooting bard to cause, but the fighter/illusionist will probably do more.

The difference will even increase during the game.

I'd still take a bard, but that's because I like other things more than pure power.

[ June 22, 2006, 22:42: Message edited by: kmonster ]

 

But according to the description, the Sith song only works during combat, and not after, so you shouldn't be able to regenerate after combat??

 

The manuals of Black Isle games are full of errors.
This didn't have a negative effect on their success however.

 

So for sake of role-play, to stick to the spirit, song of sith is NOT to be used outside of battles, however tempting the dark side may be... perhaps this will un-cheese it somehow

 

in IWD2 it only worked in combat. to be honest i dont mind it that much, since it does save you from having to memorise every little healing spell etc, so you get to use alot of different tactics with your clerics and druids instead of just beeing your healbots. Now you can use them as party buffers, and melee powerhouses with self buffs. Just keep a couple of strong healing spells for emergency situations (heals and cure criticals etc).

In many ways i actually think it makes the game more fun. Inj fact i wouldnt have minded a Bard song that ONLY worked outside of combat that gave all minor regeneration for just that reason.

Or alternativelly, the cheesy song give combat bonuses in combat, and regeneration outside of combat only.

[ August 26, 2006, 14:53: Message edited by: raptor ]

 

@Brettoni:
Using the song outside battle is not cheesier than using the "rest until healed" option.
It just let's you avoid a few repeats of tiring automatisms.

I doubt that pointless, timeconsuming, encounterfree walks to a safe place to rest and back are really a part of your role-play spirit.

 

Felinoid says:

I guess we have different playing styles then. When I play, I fill up Thief skills so quickly, I never need to worry about picking pockets. I'm just trying to say that you're going to get a lot more mileage out of a M/T than a Bard. Over the whole game. And that includes level 1-level 40 (or however high you can go). The only thing that makes the Bard worthwhile is WCotS. What extra items are so great that a Bard can use? What extra dialogues actually help that much?

kmonster said:

No team should have two Thieves. I'm trying to say that you can replace a Bard with a Thief/Mage and have a more versatile and more powerful character. If you already have a Thief, than just add a Fighter. It's the most powerful class in this game.

 

Well, I haven't gotten any bard items yet since IWD's on hold for me now, and I don't even remember what item it was that I was talking about nor am I completely sure how exactly the Bard helped you get it. (Thanks a million for bringing this up two months later. ) If you want to search through posts from two months ago to see what item can only be gotten with a Bard in the party, go ahead. But I'm not in the mood to argue with someone who looks at a Bard and sees only one use (as overpowered as it may be).

 

Bards are great. Especially in IWD. I never start a party without one. They reach the highest casting level, they level up fast, they can use items designed especially for them (Horn of Valhalla, Violin of the Hollow Man), their songs are great and they have bard specific quests. I seldom found various misconceptions about the bards, mostly because people got used to the bards from BG games (where frankly, bards were really bad).

 

Jerk. If your argument is because the thread was bumped, blame whoever did it. I never noticed your response before then.

 

I think this sums up the entire matter of the war chant of sith being cheese. It just helps get you through the game without constantly resting. To me that is a good thing.

 

Agreed, resting all the time destroys any immersion that the game provides.

 

Especially when you don't have a healer. Resting a few months adds a new sense to the idea of roleplaying.

 

Perhaps if you take long enough, the danger to the Ten Towns will get bored and go away?

 

Or die of old age.