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So, I was so excited for Minsc last night after the Red Dragon

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by Heisenberg, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. Heisenberg Gems: 5/31
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    But........... then I realized that Carsomyr (sorry for the spelling) is actually the same thing as the Holy Avenger and thus can't be used by Minsc.


    Seems to sort of be a lack of good 2 Handed Swords in SoA. I am using Lilarcor right now and its OK... like the immunity. Besides Holy Avenger what is a good classic two handed sword?



    A few other random things that have been on my mind.


    1. Does Ring of Free Movement screw up haste or anything? I like the idea of the ring but use Haste quite a bit.


    2. Is Staff of Magi game breaking? Once Yoshimo is gone I want to add Imoen or Vicionia MAYBE Keldorn.


    3. Speaking o Vicionia anyway through shadowkeeper to keep her to stay in a party with a very high rep?


    4. Is there just cause in building "Hide in Shadow" and "Silent Movement" beyond 100? Which is more important?


    Thanks guys thats about all for the moment hope everyone is having a good weekend.
     
  2. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    The Silver Sword is awesome, definitely one of the strongest weapons in the game. It has a 25 percent chance to instantly kill an enemy.
     
  3. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    There are lots of good two-handed swords, but Lilarcor is the best Minsc can wield until after you rescue Imoen. Around that time good Halberds should also start showing up.

    Yes, iirc. It makes you completely you immune to almost everything that either impedes with or benefits movement, including stun and psionics. I always give this to the party cleric or casters like Aerie.

    Only mages can use it. It can be, if you abuse its abilities.

    Nope. You either have to use the console I think or find some way to lower your rep (easily done in later chapters).

    No idea on this one, though 100 in both has worked well for me even throughout ToB. Never bothered to raise them above 100-ish due to the sheer number of invisibility items in the game.
    Both are equally important. Hide in the Shadows determines how good you are at actually hiding (like when you turn on the "Hide in the Shadows" skill) while the other determines whether you get detected or not.
     
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  4. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I believe that changing Viconia's alignment to neutral would resolve the high reputation concerns.
     
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  5. Heisenberg Gems: 5/31
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    Hey man thanks. Does "The Amulet of Power" help your casting time or hurt it? It helps right?
     
  6. Gregorovitch Gems: 2/31
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    At 100 both going into shadows and staying there are reasonable but nothing like 100% reliable. Once you get to 150 both are almost 100% reliable. Since I like scouting out enemy positions with thieves I prioritize silent movement since failing to get into the shadows is just annoying most of the time, but failing a move silently check in enemy territory can be life threatening.

    If you carry a trinket that gives you an invisibility spell or a few invisibility potions and some oils of speed (if you haven't got boots of speed) you have the means to escape if necessary though.

    The main reason I put a lot into move silently is so I feel confident enough to scout deep into a new area or dungeon to form a plan of action without too much hassle or expense.
     
  7. Tharlok Gems: 5/31
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    Since you are powergaming it to the max, I think your question should be "Where will Minsc end up?". In my games (since I take Minsc about 75% of the times) my end-goal is to give Minsc the awesome Ravager (a halbeard). Before that - Sword of Chaos than later Silver Sword. It should be noted that I find Minsc one of the worst characters (powerwise) but still takes him with me 3 out of 4 times...
     
  8. Heisenberg Gems: 5/31
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    Why do you think Minsc is so horrible? Most things I have read have at probably 3rd best NPC.
     
  9. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    He didn't say Minsc was horrible, he meant that compared to other NPCs Minsc's class (ranger) and special abilities (berserk) is nothing special. What this basically means is that, given plenty of levels and the best items, if BG2 included an alternate reality world where NPCs are forced to spar against each other then you shouldn't ever bet on Minsc. Since that's all purely hypothetical though, you shouldn't let it affect your game - none of that changes how he's one of the most interesting characters in the series and how he's one of the most dependable NPCs (you get him very early and he has solid warrior stats).
     
  10. Heisenberg Gems: 5/31
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    gotcha. Why do people say lay on hands is good? seems like "cure minor wounds" to me.
     
  11. Tharlok Gems: 5/31
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    Paracelsi summed up my point pretty good. I wasn't exactly clear on the subject. I mean Minsc is good - I don't feel that any NPC is worthless. But I tend to compare Minc with the other "Warriortypes" - Korgan, Keldorn and Sarevok. His Rage is weaker, he doesn't have any special abilitys so.. In that comparison Minsc (in my mind) is the worst option. That being said - I usually takes him with me since he (like Imoen) feels like a vital part of the story. And Minsc with Ravager is fun to watch...
     
  12. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Lay on hands gets better with levels (it heals around 2 HP per level iirc) and has no casting time. I think it's more like an emergency self-heal in BG2.
     
  13. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Good other options for two-handed swords in SoA are the Soul Reaver +4 (only useable by neutral and evil character's, though, and kind of obscure to get) and the Silver Sword. In ToB there's the Gram the Sword of Grief and the Psion Blade (immunity to all psionics and charm). If you're going to specialize in a few other weapon types (for which Minsc easily has enough proficiency points), there's a couple of really great spears in SoA (The Impaler, notably) and ToB (Ixil's Pike), and halberds - also in SoA (Dragon's Breath +4 and the Wave +4) and of course the Ravager in ToB.

    Plenty of great choices for Minsc.

    As for HiS and MS, going above 100 is definitely a good idea if you want to do it reliably in all circumstances. HiS will determine your chances of actually hiding in the shadows. MS seems to be more indirect and I don't really know if you need to put it as high as HiS. The thing about HiS is that you get penalties if you're trying to hide in the sunlight or just a brightly lit area. If you move your character into the shadows (when you see your avatar appear darker), 100 should be enough to do it reliably. But personally I want to be able to do it whenever wherever, and 100 isn't going to be enough for that. Plus sometimes the shadows can be quite fidly to find.
     
  14. SlickRCBD Gems: 24/31
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    It slightly helps you.

    I'm not sure if a mod or fixpack did this, since Minsc's low wisdom should preclude it, but after your first level-up, Minsc starts learning druid spells using the ranger spell progression. Those low-level spells can make a difference. His higher strength and ability to wear heavy armor MIHO makes him as good or better than Valygar.


    It's still not much better than a single Cure spell. 2HP/level isn't much if you have the "max HP on level up".



    * * *
    Finally, for the thing with Viconia, there is a component of both Ease-of-Use and the G3Tweaks that will make it so that NPCs won't desert you because of reputation. I find the item stacking component of ease-of-use to be invaluable, but then I'm a pack-rat by nature and hate inventory management. (Now I need to get on performing some "inventory management" on my home as there is too much clutter around here).
     
  15. Isilion Gems: 1/31
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    There's also a Warblade +4 in SOA. It has no special effects, but is the only +4 2H sword before ToB.

    Minsc has one of the highest STR of any NPC in the game and can cast spells such as armor of faith which is very handy

    the staff of magi can have many uses. escaping attack for mages. or safely disarming traps with Imoen/Jan/Nalia when there are monters around. Or even cheesier, you can use it to cancel spells that are being cast against you.

    As for Viconia leaving the party, just turn off AI. I always play without AI and I've never had an NPC leave even when crossing their treshold. If you want to keep AI on, just turn it off right before you do something that raises your reputation to 19 or 20 and then turn it on again.

    There is good reason to go over 100 for hide in shadows/move silently. There are various penalties that can apply and reduces your actual skill below 100. being outside during the day, sources of light, fatigue, armor

    the amulet of power reduces the time to cast a spell by "1". A spell with a cast speed of 10 takes a full round to cast, so 6 seconds. That means that the amulet makes you cast 0.6 seconds faster. It doesn't seem a lot, but it can make a difference when under attack. But the biggest benefit of the amulet are the vocalize and immunity to level drain
     
  16. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I always have the AI off and the really unhappy npcs leave.

    WW -- you have Carsomyr! Go get Keldorn and let him kick some serious booty with it! You won't regret it (unless you have Viconia ... Keldorn + Carsomyr = dead Viconia). Between his Inquisitor abilities and Carsomyr (with the 'Dispel Magic' on ever hit) mage battles suddenly become a piece of cake ... liches are wusses to be smaked down by ... well ... you get the picture.
     
  17. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Also note that the Warblade inflicts 1d12+4 damage, not 1d10+3 like Lilarcor. With a 19 Str, *** Prof Point Fighter, that would be 15-26 damge for the Warblade compared to 13-23 damage per hit for Lilarcor and that is not even including Crits. With ** Prof Points in 2-hand Weapon Style, Minsc starts dealing out lots of damage. Then add haste to the mix...;). He becomes a monster. I always use the Warblade for Minsc/PC and Carsomyr for Keldorn/PC.
     
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    really?
    how odd
    i don't have any mods that change npc behavior or the effects of reputation and i have never had an npc leave even though even my evil parties usually end up with 20 reputation from just doing the quests

    the only time i had people leave was in my very first game. i had AI on back then and tried to pickpocket something with yoshimo. he failed and the target went hostile. Minsc immediately attacked with his bow, one shotting the commoner. all the other NPCs around us went hostile too and they too died very quickly because my party members attacked them automatically. my reputation dropped like hell and Minsc and Jaheira got angry and left. :o
    I never played with AI on ever again. (nor tried any more pickpocketing without saving first)
     
  19. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Maybe it has something to do with your PC's charsima? I know charisma can delay and ultimately prevent whether certain NPCs come to blows, but I don't know if it prevents NPCs from leaving. Though I think it's more likely the culprit is a modpack.
     
  20. Isilion Gems: 1/31
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    I'm quite sure my CHA doesn't play a role, I often play with low CHA characters
    just to be sure i did a quick test and made a character with CHA 3 and escaped irenicus' dungeon with Jaheira and Minsc. Then i started massacring innocents, first with AI on, then after reloading with AI off.
    When the AI was on both Minsc and Jaheira left.
    When the AI was off they complained and were angry, but they didn't leave
     
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