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Sex between teacher and student in the USA

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Baronius, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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  2. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    DR - Even the male ones? :aaa:

    I didn't know you played for both teams.


    On topic, the laws look to me to cover the situation as described between the legal age of consent for sex and the legal age of majority.
     
  3. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I thought the appropriate sports euphemism was "taking some swings from the other side of the plate".
     
  4. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Nah, "play for the other team" is the euphemism.
     
  5. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] Batting for both teams. Half rice, half chips. Going both ways. Straddling the fence. AC/DC. Likes Arthur and Martha. Breads' buttered on both sides...

    Emancipation whilst automatic at the age of 18 can also occur in younger teens through a court process, often the parents are obliged to pay monthly deposits into an account much like when separated parents pay Child Support to the parent housing the child until the teenager reaches 18.

    Rarely occuring below the age of 15 emancipated teens are also an exception to teen labour laws depicting how much they can work and also less limitations on the occupations they can hold.
     
    Blades of Vanatar likes this.
  6. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    8's quite correct about emancipated minors, according to my understanding. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors

    As applies to the MI law, all that means is that emancipated minors are an exception, as are married persons.

    Basically all I said is that there are two instances that I was either aware of (MI) or became aware of (TX - through some casual research) that seem to satisfy Baronius' original inquiry of [paraphrase] "is it true that sex between instructors and students of any age in the USA is illegal?" I listed the MI bill/law and the TX law separately ... not really sure where the confusion has crept in for you. If you want to know what's different between the MI bill and the TX law, I think it's pretty clear upon reading them, although the fundamental applicability to the thread topic is not their differences but that they qualify as examples where Baronius appears to have been correct in his basic understanding, more or less. They both seem to indicate that sex between instructors and adult students is or may be (or in MI's case, may become) illegal.

    MI bill | A person is guilty of criminal sexual conduct in the third degree if the person engages in sexual penetration with another person and if any of the following circumstances exist: ... That other person is at least 16 years of age and IS a student at a public school or nonpublic school ...

    TX law | An employee of a public or private primary or secondary school commits an offense if the employee engages in ... conduct described by Section 33.021, with a person described by Subdivision (1), regardless of the age of that person.

    Here are some links showing people being up in arms over the TX law and the MI bill:

    http://www.totalcriminaldefense.com/news/articles/sex-crimes/teacher-student-sex.aspx (reposted)

    http://www.educationnews.org/educat...considers-controversial-hot-for-teacher-bill/

     
  7. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    If you read futher the charges against McEhlenney were dismissed a while ago. Damn where were the "former Miss Whatever-state" teachers who wanted to have sex with students when I was in high school....
     
  8. Confused Guyy Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


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    A part of me thinks this will backfire.

    All the media focus on student/teacher relationships had made them exotic and interesting. And now when they're happen they're going to be more secretive and bizarre than ever before with further reaching side effects when and if they're caught.

    A teacher nailing a student and then being accused of using his/her authority to coercion it is bad.

    But a teacher nailing a student behind backs and in closets for months (Or years) paranoid at any moment that either of them will be caught, just seems to be setting up two (or more) lives being ruined
     
  9. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I guess the confusion crept in for me because your first post was #25 in the thread - when we had already moved on from Baronius' original comment - and you were pointing out legislation that banned any type of sexual contact between teachers and students, irrespective of age. (Just go back through your posts in this thread if you don't believe me.)

    Are we reading the same posts? Or the same bills/laws? Because I'm taking the exact opposite interpretation. Baronius' original message clearly stated that he heard that sex between a teacher and a student was considered a criminal offense even if they were both adults. IIRC, he even italicized the same words I just did. The laws we've seen only apply (and do so explicitly) to non-emancipated people, which from a legal perspective ends at age 18 as a maximum (the law states examples of when it can take place earlier).

    So it's not of any age. All this law does is bump the age of consent from 16 to 18 when you're talking about a teacher-student relationship. I do not believe that woman you listed should have been charged with a felony, as they were both adults. As the charges were later dismissed, it would appear that her initial arrest was due to the law being implemented inappropriately - the law is still in place - it just excludes people over 18.

    That said, if a teacher is caught having sex with a student - even if the student is 18+, he can probably expect to get his ass fired if he's working for a private institution.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  10. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    lol, I wasn't aware that we weren't allowed to address thread topics in post 25. ;) In fact, Beren helpfully reminded us what were acceptable topics in post 20, heh:

    Re: emancipation, the TX law doesn't mention it. The MI law and bill list it as an exception if the "other person" (e.g. the victim, as opposed to the "actor" or perpetrator) is emancipated. An emancipated minor is a minor - a person under 18 - who is not subject to the controls of a parent or guardian and functions similarly to an adult. It doesn't mean 'all adults.'

    See this legal definition more more info: http://definitions.uslegal.com/e/emancipation/

    Subparagraph i of section e in the MI law and bill simply says that the provision "The actor is a teacher, substitute teacher, or administrator of that public school, nonpublic school, school district, or intermediate school district" doesn't apply if the other person is emancipated. In other words, instructors can have consensual relations with emancipated minors without fear of criminal prosecution.

    I suspect that what's at the heart of much of the objection over the TX law is that it includes 18 year olds, as opposed to the normal under 18 limiter. So an 18 year old adult is subject to the law, but not a 19 year old adult.


    Anyway Aldeth, I'm :bang: here, so if you want to believe that the words -


    amended to read -


    will mean that the amended version will have an upper limit of 18 years of age, go right ahead.

    :)
     
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