1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Review and Score

Discussion in 'Pillars of Eternity' started by Keneth, Apr 29, 2015.

  1. Ineth

    Ineth Instigator Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    155
    Media:
    141
    Likes Received:
    57
    Indeed. This and the "give neutral NPCs blue selection circles" option alone make the IE mod worth the trouble of downloading and installing it. Feel free to ignore the rest - all its options/features are opt-in, so no need to worry about unintended changes.

    (PS: I really wonder what Obsidian was thinking, giving neutral NPCs the same selection circle color as party members. It creates confusion, and I can see no upside at all.)
     
  2. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    136
    Gender:
    Female
    I understood the circle color choice had something to do with making the option for those who are color blind viable. I could be wrong though. I do appreciate that OE did make some attempts to make the game more visual friendly for those of us who have visual problems. :D

    I support modding as it makes it possible for people to tailor the game to their individual likes and dislikes and I hope that OE eventually supplies modding tools.
     
  3. Keneth Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,127
    Media:
    20
    Likes Received:
    227
    Gender:
    Male
    Colorblind mode uses blues instead of greens to differentiate things because they're easier to tell apart than greens and reds. I haven't actually tried it, but that's what I've heard/read. That said, I don't know what that has to do with non-colorblind mode. If a mod can change the circles, the devs could have as well.
     
  4. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    136
    Gender:
    Female
    It really isn't worth arguing about. Even if I put the color blind mode on I will still not see what a color blind person will see because I am not color blind. Since the mod fixes what what people want fixed I also see no problem. Everyone gets what they want s all I am saying.

    I don't know enough about monogramming and graphics to make any judgement.
     
  5. crucis

    crucis Fighting the undead in Selune's name Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    29
    The bigger problem that I have is that it annoys the hell out of me how DUMB the party AI is. (This does partially relate to circle colors.)

    A couple of examples.

    1. When you have a member of your party charmed they turn red. Well, OK, sort of. But what I find annoying is that your team mates are so freaking dumb that they can't tell the difference between a true enemy and a charmed friend and will attack a charmed friend without a second thought. IMO, charmed friends should be ignored.

    I really hate it when I have team mates charmed, not so much because they've temporarily switched sides and are attacking the party, but because the braindead AI forces uncharmed team mates to attack the charmed ones. It forces me to go into uber-micro-managing mode to do the best I can to force the party to ignore charmed ones, which annoys me no end.


    2. It's annoying as hell how you can have traps lit up, and the party's pathfinding is so completely braindead that party members will go la-la-la-la-la and walk right over the spotted traps. If you can't disarm a trap, you almost have to move your party one character at a time, at a crawl, because if you tried to move them at any speed, the pathfinding AI would run them right over the traps no matter how you tried to get them to avoid'em.


    3. It's also annoying as hell how badly pathfinding interacts with party formations. Let's say that you're in a 2 by 3 formation, like this...

    1..2
    3..4
    5..6

    If you are moving down a narrow passageway ... too narrow for the formation to easily place the characters, for some annoying as hell reason, the character in slot #5 feels an overwhelming compulsion to move ahead of the 1 and 2 guys!!!! That is, ending up sorta like this...

    ..5
    1..2
    ..6
    3..4


    Why the hell can't pathfinding figure out that if you can't fit the formation in a narrow passageway, then just stretch the formation out and make ever more narrow, but keep the characters in the same relative positional order, 1 through 6. It annoys me no end to see people at the back of the pack moving ahead of the guys at the front just because a passage is narrow and the AI is dumb as a bag of rocks.

    If the passage way is too narrow, pathfinding should just force the formation to end up looking more like this....

    1
    .2
    3
    .4
    5
    .6

    rather than the idiotic crap that it currently does.

    Sorry for the rant.
     
    Ineth likes this.
  6. Keneth Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,127
    Media:
    20
    Likes Received:
    227
    Gender:
    Male
    Pathfinding in 3D, especially for formations, is a pain in the arse to code. The amount of wasted cycles needed for each individual to note the relative positions of others in a formation and adjust accordingly are simply not worth the effort.

    Also, I don't recall ever seeing a game where the AI would consciously avoid a trap that has been spotted. I suppose it would be possible to have the AI act as though a trap is impassable, but how is the AI supposed to tell whether you want them to move around or through?

    I do agree that the combat AI is lacking considerably though. The ability to modify the AI scripts would have been very welcome.
     
  7. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,662
    Media:
    38
    Likes Received:
    158
    Gender:
    Male
    If you drag a file to another folder, how is the OS supposed to know whether you want to move or copy the file? A similar solution could be applied in the case of spotted traps. Just because no game ever did it before, doesn't mean no-one should look for a solution.

    Other than that the pathfinding and formation AI sounds like it's on about the same level as BG was. Not exactly a glowing endorsement, that, though BG was mostly functional at least.
     
  8. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    136
    Gender:
    Female
    When I have a trap that can't be disarmed I put the party on single file and this works most of the time. I have auto pause on for sighting enemies and hidden objects. Personally I think the combat in PoE is better than in the IE games.

    I use stealth a lot and try to position my party members to best advantage. My biggest problem is when the fighting bunches up and spells are being cast from both sides that hide who is fighting whom.

    I can understand why some folk may find combat needs macro or do I mean Micro management. I had a hard time adjusting from the combat in the TES games back to the type of management need in PoE.
     
  9. crucis

    crucis Fighting the undead in Selune's name Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    29
    Suggestion: I would turn off auto-pause on hidden objects in the tutorial dungeon because that 8x8 (?) square of trapped squares will drive you batty as you walk by it. ;)

    You can turn it back on after you've left that par of the dungeon behind.
     
    Nakia likes this.
  10. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    136
    Gender:
    Female
    This may be off topic but based on posts I have seen on the official forum I keep wondering if people who have never played this type of RPG but have played other ones think they don't need the tutorials that are available in-game.

    PoE is very different from many of the modern RPGs and I think can be bewildering to some players.
     
  11. Keneth Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,127
    Media:
    20
    Likes Received:
    227
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't see the analogy. I also don't like "intelligent" solutions because they inevitably force you to jump through hoops to achieve what you want.
     
  12. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,662
    Media:
    38
    Likes Received:
    158
    Gender:
    Male
    Sure, when programs start to think for you, it usually gets pretty annoying. Seeing your party wander into already identified traps is also pretty annoying.

    What I was thinking of was that you'd use Shift or Alt or Ctrl to force the party to avoid identified traps. Or the other way around. Similar to the way you could make your unit force attack something or force move somewhere in the early C&C games.
     
  13. Keneth Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,127
    Media:
    20
    Likes Received:
    227
    Gender:
    Male
    I suppose that could be doable. Not sure it's really worth the manpower to code it for those 10 occasions when you encounter a trap, but that's a different issue.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.