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Revenge of the Sith *spoilers*

Discussion in 'Sensorium' started by Register, May 16, 2005.

  1. Jhonka

    Jhonka This is the face of Justice Veteran

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    HB, I wouldn't be too surprised about some little plot-holes, they're bound to happen I guess. 'Course, you could reason that a few Jedi may have survived the betrayal, and Vader hunted them down in the 20-year interim.
     
  2. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I loved how every single clone soldier / stormtrooper was Temuera Morrison. Classic.

    You're not in Guatemala now, Captain Ropata. :D :tie: Cook me some eggs!
     
  3. Victor Eremita Gems: 8/31
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    I've seen ROTS this evening and overall I think it's a great movie. I have a few comments to some of the other comments on the film in this thread so I'll just start there:

    *SPOILERS*

    I think Obi-Wan beats Anakin. After all the reason why Obi-Wan wins is that he fights smarter/wiser than Anakin (hence the 'higher ground' remark) who in return is becoming more and more arrogant.

    The bike/beast chase may be a bit too much but the fight between Obi-Wan and Greivous is essential for the narrative IMO. Combatwise, Obi-Wan is pretty anonymous compared to Anakin in both AOTC and ROTS (up to the final Greivous-fight) and given his role in the end of the film he needs a 'heroic moment' at this point - otherwise his defeating Anakin one-on-one would just be too big a contrast. Besides, I really liked the Greivous-fight, especially the way Obi-Wan cuts off one arm at a time (like Hercules and the Hydra in Greek mythology).

    Why is that? TPM (and ROTJ IMHO) are 'too kiddie' and the fact that Lucas changes the tone in ROFS doesn't change the fact that the criticism is merited when it comes to TPM.

    The love scenes are less horrible than in AOTC but they still seem a bit forced IMO.

    That's a great scene. It reminded my of a 17./18. century intrigue where most of the drama takes places in great halls and during plays.

    I think that's a reasonable explanation. It works from both a pragmatic and a narrative point of view.

    And a few additional remarks:

    I would have prefered it if Hayden Christensen where able to express more than just angry/happy but overall I think the acting is all right. Ewan McGregor is great (although he seems at a loss in the scene in the Jedi Temple when Obi-Wan learns what Anakin has done).

    I still think that the huge red and green buttons on the front of Vader's suit look silly :D

    I loved the fact that the Storm Troopers' combat armor seem to be more battle worn in AOTC and ROTS than their plastic suits ANH/ESB/ROTJ.

    That's all for now. There's bound to be remarks so I'll just post any further thoughts later...
     
  4. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I do like the fact that nobody really came out as perfect. Even Yoda was shown to be flawed. Palpatine's remarks about Yoda's arrogance were probably close to the mark. Yoda is still super-cool, but he's not perfect.

    Plus I now agree with all Big B's comments about "love" being the central theme to the whole series.
     
  5. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    [​IMG] All I can say is .... FANTASTIC!!!

    This movie seems a bit of an 'oxymoron'.

    The action scenes rocked. Anakin turning the tables big time by taking both of Dooku's hands and then his head. Wow ... Anakin vs. Obi-Wan. Sidious vs. Yoda.

    In that sense, the widescreen is much the better format.

    On the other hand ... it also tells a very serious and moving story. Anakin's inner turmoil as he obsesses over saving, and keeping, Padme. And Padme's own heartbreak over seeing what Anakin is turning into. Don't get me wrong, I thought Lucas, Christensen, Portman, et al, did an o.k. job. But this is the sort of thing that is much better told in literary-novel format. So yeah ... Anakin's conversion did seem a bit rushed or contrived on the screen. It sort of seems like squeezing two projects into one medium, and the medium is better suited to one of them.

    Mind you, it did have its touching moments. Padme's death ... ouch. And then Anakin with the little Jedi to be (or not) ... damn.

    Well, I might think about other things to rant about later.
     
  6. Victor Eremita Gems: 8/31
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    Or like Anakin/Vader says: "Either you're with me or you're my enemy." Sound like anybody we know?
     
  7. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Next question (I'm not nitpicking, I'm being reverent):

    Is it really Anakin's lightsabre that Obi-wan gives to Luke on Tatooine? ("Your father wanted you have this, when you were old enough.") In all the action, I never noticed whether Obi-wan picked up Anakin's lightsabre or not.
     
  8. Sir Belisarius

    Sir Belisarius Viconia's Boy Toy Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's blue saber as he walks up the hill and away from Anakin at the lava pit. It's a quick move, but he does it.

    Lucas was careful to cover everything else, you didn't think he'd miss that, would you?

    I think I'm going to go see it one more time at least on the big screen. It's awesome, and a little sad because this is the last one....Maybe.

    I saw a tv interview with John Williams. He said he was sad that this was his final Star Wars soundtrack and that he thought Lucas would make 7,8, & 9. When asked if he thought this was the last Star Wars movie, Williams said: "I wouldn't count on it." :banana: :tie: :banana: :tie: :banana:
     
  9. Big B Gems: 27/31
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    [​IMG] I’m just back from my second viewing, and grinning like Lando on the Cloud City docking platform. There’s no way I can reply tonight to everything that other people have replied to what I have written so far, but I will eventually. Not to mention the second half of what I intended to be my original post that was growing so long, because there is so much to talk about. But I’ll start in order: Joacqin, about the 14 year-old or so Jedi that Bail witnesses the death of, I am 99% sure that is Jett Lucas, George’s son. While we’re on an easter egg note, I saw both George Lucas and the Millenium Falcon cameos. You can see George decked out not in flannel, but some strange suit, with a blue face, just outside of the (Mon Calamari - I think) Freak bubble show that Anakin and Palps attend. Look for him to the right of the screen talking to someone else as Anakin leaves the gaudy red hall and enters the balcony with Palps. As for the Falcon, you can see it landing on Coruscant. I can’t remember for sure, but I think it was during the establishing shot for the scene where Anakin and Obi-Wan return the Chancellor and a large crowd is there to greet them. It is not long after the space battle at all. Anyways, look towards the bottom of the screen and you’ll see either the Falcon or a ship that looks an awful lot like it landing on Coruscant. It’s not too obvious, because ships are taking off and docking on other parts of the screen, but it is there.

    About Anakin’s turn, again I think all the required evidence for why Anakin feels so strong about saving Padme, about wanting to have that control, to stop her from dying, and using that as his motivation to aid Palpatine at that crucial moment with Mace, is very well presented and developed in TPM, AOTC, and the 1st half of ROTS. It’s all there and it makes sense. He was taken away from his mother at a critical age. In a way, he was taken away from a beautiful young woman he befriended during the Naboo crisis for nearly 10 years. Then he loses his mother. And he gains Padme. He confides in Padme that he will learn how to stop people from dying. Remember, he dreamt his mother was in trouble, and then she died. He dreams the same about Padme, he has no reason to doubt it will happen again. And this time he is so resolute about it. He will do what it takes to save her. *He will* And if that’s not good enough for you, well that’s okay, because there’s more. You see, Lucas set up the scene well. In a non-combative atmosphere, Anakin does the right thing, he tells Mace about Palps. Then he wants to help, but yet again Mace doesn’t trust him. And there’s a long history of that as well. Let us not forget the go to Mustafar look Anakin gives Mace back in TPM when he says he will not be trained. Don’t forget how Mace orders Anakin to stay put on Tatooine rather than go off to save Obi-Wan in AOTC. And similarly to TPM, let us not forget how Mace is the one to break the news to Anakin that he is on the council, but he will not be a master. And so what does Mace do, he denies Anakin the chance to do anything but sit in the council chambers and ponder. And what does Anakin ponder? He thoughts go across the hustle and bustle of Coruscant to Padme. And he makes a choice, he’s already half way there to making his critical decision when he jumps in his starship to go interfere.

    And then he gets there and the one man that believes in him the most is about to be killed by the one man who Anakin has reason to think believes in him the least. And furthermore, the one man that believes in him the most has already told him that he has the knowledge to help Anakin in his quest for stopping people from dying. That is the power, the control, that Anakin desires. And so here Anakin is and he has a choice. And in order to learn what he sees as the most valuable piece of training he will ever receive, the training to stop Padme from dying, he embraces his decision by making the choice right then and there to exert his control over stopping another person’s death: Palpatine’s. It makes sense why he acts the way he does when he lops off Mace’s hand. But, you say, well that is all fine and good, but why then does he go all out and lead the razing of the Jedi Temple, complete with Youngling slaughter? I think the answer is: anger, fear, aggression, and hate. All those things Yoda can’t ever stop warning us about. And another one: guilt. From Anakin’s point of view, when he helps in the murder of Mace Windu, he sees himself as unforgivable by the Jedi, I’m sure. From his comments and self-pity, tear shedding, and overall guilt, you can tell he doesn’t even forgive himself. You mix a little fear into that. Fear of “oh my gosh, what the Mustafar just happened here?”and “What have I become?” mixed with the fear of receiving a similar shock therapy treatment as Mace if Anakin were to refuse Palp’s orders. And most importantly, mix in the fear of bungling his only chance to learn how to save Padme from dying. Mix in all the anger and hate Anakin had against Mace and the Jedi in general who were “holding him back”, and Yoda telling him that he should just let go of whatever he is attached to. And you can see why Anakin carries through with Palps’ actions. It’s a means to an end. An end that he desires so badly: save Padme. Get control and then kill Palps. He even tells that to Padme later: that he and Padme can overthrow Palps and rule the galaxy. And we all know how he later tries to get Luke to do the same thing with him. And you see that under this whole control over the deaths of people he loves thing escalates into a lust for control of the galaxy. And Palps even tells Anakin that as long as there are Jedi alive they will resist this control by Palps. Anakin knows this to be true, even if he overthrows Palps, he would have to deal with the Jedi who he no longer sides with. And furthermore, there are multiple quotes in AOTC and ROTS where Anakin is talking about peace and order, and an end to bickering, dissension, and civil war. And Palps knows this, as part of his order to Anakin to wipe the Jedi out, Palps tells him if the Jedi are not wiped out, there will be “endless civil war.” And so any angle Anakin looks at it, to get what he wants, he is first going to have to finish off the Jedi. It’s as if he decides to follow Yoda’s advice in a twisted way: OK Master Yoda, you want me to let go? OK, I’ll let go. First, I’ll let go of your limiting and cold philosophies. I’ll be the one who decides what I let go of and what I embrace. I am my own person, it’s time to do what Anakin wants. And on and on. The evidence of motivation is numerous. Lucas hit this part of the prequels dead on. I’ll talk later about parts I don’t think he did quite as well or efficient on, but the whole business of Anakin’s turn and the elaborate setting up of it, is more than valid in my eyes.

    And for a less weightier subject: buzz droids. I still agree, that I could do without them. Here's a question? Why don't the buzz droids just drill through the windshield? I'm sure the SW technical dictionary will explain, but it does make you wonder. But having seen the space battle a second time, aside from messed up battle droid and Neomodian voices, and buzz droids, I love the opening. I was thinking there was something else I didn’t like, but whatever it was, I did not realize it during my second viewing, so I guess not. The whole opening shot is awesome. The whole rescue mission is great. Not perfect, but very great.

    OK Sir Bel, I agree with you 100% on McDiarmind’s acting when Palps tells Anakin about Darth Plagueis. You definitely can tell that Palps was the apprentice who killed him. I love how that was implied through acting and not explicit dialogue. That was classic. That reached Sir Guiness levels of acting that Star Wars is lucky to have. I really enjoyed that, and I hope all SW fans do. There’s a whole lot more I want to talk about concerning this critical scene, but I’ll have to save that for a later time. :tie:

    And yes the Anakin and Padme deep thought connection scene was awesome and was one more piece of the puzzle (and an effective one at that) in showing why Anakin makes the choices he does. Mace almost turning to the dark side? That’s a great point of view. He definitely flirts with it. I think he has to tap into just enough to even disarm Palps. Which I think he does fair and square. However, I think that blinds Mace to some other stuff that is going on right then. Specifically, I am convinced that Palps is hamming up the situation. Listen to how his voice changes as he pleads Anakin for help. Palps lulls Mace into complacency and Palps makes Anakin think that Palps is desperately needing Anakin to save him - all in one move. Just to clarify this, becuase it is important, I will interpret the scene with a couple of questions and answers:

    1. Did Mace defeat Palps fair and square or did Palps let him when because he wanted to play up the situation with Anakin?

    I think Mace disarmed Palps fair and square. I’d even go as far to say that Mace flirted with the dark side in order to give him the power to do so, long enough at least in lightsaber combat. (Which explains later why Yoda isn’t able to defeat Palps. Yoda is not willing to flirt with the dark side.)

    2. Does Palps fake it when Anakin arrives on the scene?

    First off, if Anakin had not arrived on the scene, I think Palps would have still used his lightning on Mace. How it would have turned out, I cannot say. I’d like to say Palps would regain his compsure and save his own hide, but for a brief second there you can tell he is genuinely afraid of defeat by Mace. I mean notice how he quickly (but pathetically), he scampers on all fours to get away from Mace’s saber, as soon as Mace disarms him. But lucky for Palps, Anakin arrives right when he does. And I think Palps, being ever the one to take full advantage of a new turn of events, gets the wheels turning in his head very quickly. Palps makes it a stand-off with his lightning, and hams up his “weakening self” to both lull Mace into complacency and put the pressure on Anakin to save his hide, because he has what Anakin needs. And his act does the intended deception. Mace thinks Palps is too weak to do anything and hesitates for a just a slight moment, and that’s all Palps ask for. Because in that slight moment, Mace makes a decision to kill Palps, Anakin argues with him, and Palps regains his breath and ability to blast the shiz out of Mace when his guard is down or at least distracted by Anakin. Then bam! Mace goes for the kill. Anakin intercepts. Distraction is provided and sha-zam. Mace gets a real good shock and then blasted out into Coruscant air traffic. And don’t even try to say that Mace should be able to jump back up or some other self-saving tactic. A mixture of Anakin’s betrayal, getting his hand loped off, getting shock therapy from Palps, and the final blast that knocks him well away from the building. Nope, there’s no hope from coming back on that one. And to top it off, Palps get right up like it’s all in a days work and immediately begins to work on Anakin’s allegiance to him. I think the evidence is there. Palps was definitely hamming it up for Anakin. And it worked. It makes me love to hate him even more.

    Foradasthar, since the Mace/Palps/Anakin discussion is dominating this reply of mine, I’ll just elaborate more on my initial reaction. Now having seen it a second time, I think I am beginning to understand it better. I won’t say I have decided for certain, but I am trying to consider all the angles. Was it redirection of lightning? Maybe not. It certainly was up close and personal in his face, even if it was just blocking it. You provide a good answer. Another answer to consider would be that Palps has all along been using a method through perversion of midichlorians, similar to his late master, Darth Plagueis, to prolong his life. And that Palps has flirted with the dark side so much that his wrinkly Emperor butt crack head look is how he actually looks in reality. And of course he has to pervert midichlorians to appear younger and put on his “Chancellor Palpatine” mask to carry out his plan. Butt-crack head just isn’t very charismatic. ;) And during the lightning/lightsaber stand-off with Mace, Palps decides to let it or free or even can no longer control his “mask” and the true face is revealed. That in turn, is another way to look at it. Furthermore, I read a tidbit that someone posted from an interview with Ian McDiarmind, that when filming was started for TPM, Lucas told McDiarmind to play the character of Palpatine as a person wearing a mask. Either way, this is one thing that is left to the intrepretation of the audience. So it is good to muse over and chew on for awhile.

    Oh man, this is just the tip of the iceberg. More to post have I. Patience, for the Jedi it is time to eat as well. Mmm, midnight snack. And then rest, I must rest.
     
  10. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Big B - your streams of consciousness on Star Wars are amazing. They rival Chevalier's passionate discourses on Catholicism. Star Wars is like a religion to you? Do you put "Jedi" on your census forms as your religion (like many New Zealanders did in the last census)?
     
  11. Jesper898 Gems: 21/31
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    I saw it at the premiere, and I was totally blown away. (Same as everyone else; I've never experienced so many people clapping in a cinema)

    Big G really did a good job with this movie; so good that I am almost willing to forgive him for ever concieving of Jar Jar Binks.

    I thought that all the actors did a terrific job, especially Ian McDiarmid as the ever loveable Emperor. Ewan really "was" Alec Guiness in this movie, and I never want to hear anyone criticise Hayden's acting again after seeing that final duel on Mustafar.

    I really liked the "Order 66" scene with the Jedi being wiped out, though I am not sure if it only applies to regular Clone troopers or if it applies to Clone Commandos and ARC troopers too, since are not as docile as the normal Clones. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has any thoughts on this.


    And the young Jedi being killed is indeed Big G's son. I haven't seen the Falcon yet (Though it could just be a regular YT-1300) or Big G's cameo yet, but I will surely keep an eye out for them next time I go to see the movie.


    Well done, Big G! The Force is indeed strong in this movie. :tie: :tie: :tie:
     
  12. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    My beloved took me on opening night, which was cool. I loved the movie, but have a few things to say about it.

    For one thing, IMHO, and that of many critics, Star Wars is not science fiction, but rather fantasy set in outer space on a Galactic scale. The whole story is based on the idea of good vs. evil. The politicalization of the story in the last three films was regretable, but necessary. The Emperor's character becomes more and more interesting as the prequels progress.

    The only thing I really and truly had a problem with was the final fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin. I can accept that despite the fact he's powerful and tough and skilled and all, Anakin gets beaten by Obi-Wan, because Obi-Wan is older and more experienced. What I had a tough time with was the fact that Obi-Wan merely talks to his former apprentice as the poor bugger is dying a very painful death. If he had any heart at all, he would have put his former friend out of his misery. Instead, he reminds Vader that "you were the chosen one" and walks away. WTF? I mean, all he would have had to do was use the force to kill Vader with a lightsabre, or push him into the lava quicker, or whatever. And the whole "killing is wrong" as Jedi code is horse-pucky -- Jedi frequently kill people, we've seen that in all the movies. It's not like, as in the case of Anakin deciding whether or not to kill Dooku "I should bring him in for trial" -- Obi-Wan has no intention of taking Vader in or expectation that he'll even survive! So why just let him suffer? (I realize from a plot perspective Vader had to survive, but the characterization on Kenobi is weak here).

    Lastly, while I have no interest in seeing any more of that little pansy Hadyn than is/was absolutely necessary, I would have liked to see Portman get nekkid :evil:

    Does she bare all in "Closer"?

    Lastly, while I sorta like the comic relief provided by R2, I think it shoulda been cut in this film.
     
  13. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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    Well, we know that Obi-Wan did lie to Luke; "Vader betrayed and murdered your father," anyone? If you're trying to convince someone that another man is irredeemably evil, the embodiment of all that you shouldn't be, a little lying can be useful.

    A few scenes I absolutely loved

    1) opening space battle. We finally get to see what it really looks like when SW warships go at it (Jedi didn't show enough). Holy crap, I'm in love.

    2) Attack on the temple, extermination of the jedi. Awesome. Just awesome. Anakin's assault was just....damn. Damn, damn, damn. The deaths of the jedi, ditto. Made perfect sense, too--if you're in the middle of a military unit, working side by side with 'em, and they turn on you unexpectedly, without warning, you're gonna die. Period. Don't matter if you're a jedi or not. It worked. Really, really well.

    3) Birth of Vader. His first breath...awesome.

    Alright, Lucas has redeemed himself. Ep I, crap. Ep II, a bit above average. Ep III, every bit as good as the originals.

    Yeah, some of the acting was cringe worthy, but that's nit picking.
     
  14. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Next question: How did Obi-wan and Yoda manage to hide from Vader so well? In Empire Strikes Back, Vader sends out a few probes and finds the rebels almost instantly.

    Anyway, watched A New Hope again last night and it was great to see things in a whole new light, especially Vader saying "Now I am the MASTER" after having seen how bummed he was at not being a Master before. Also highlights more why Vader gets so pissed at people who call his devotion to the Force a sorcerous old religion.
     
  15. Sir Belisarius

    Sir Belisarius Viconia's Boy Toy Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Yoda was able to hide from Vader because he was masked by the cave on Dagobah. The cave Luke entered for his trial was strong with the Dark Side of the force...It also kept Vader from zeroing in on him.

    Obi-Wan was hidden because he didn't use the Force on Tatooine until he runs into Luke during ANH.

    Easily explanable. ;) :grin: :lol:
     
  16. Big B Gems: 27/31
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    [​IMG] OK, I'll continue on. First, no SW is not my religion. :p I am a Christian. SW is not the only thing I can have long replies on. Back in the day, when the Alley was new and even when we just had Whatnots, I'd make just as long replies on religious topics. But I do like SW better than any other movie series to date, so yes, you could say I am passionate about it. :tie:

    Now, back on page 1, Foradasthar also mentioned the overabundance of special effects. I think everything effects wise with the space battle fit well into the context of the Clone Wars, except of course for the buzz droids. The dragonfly ships on Kashyyk were a little wierd, but I can handle it. It's a cultural thing for the Wookies, it doesn't have to be generalized to the rest of the galaxy. I did think that a lot of the effects concerning the Boga and the wheelbike chase on Utapau to be the most frivolous and un-needed. The effects with Yoda vs. Palps and Anakin vs. Obi-Wan were high end to be sure, but given the level of drama, I think they are warranted. Now about the upscaling of the use of the Force in this one, specifically Force push and throw, I agree it seems a bit much. But if you look at every other fight in the saga the lack of using these tactics can usually be explained one of two ways: a) force throw is not a person's preferred style, either they are not good enough to do it during a fight, or they prefer to use lightsabers. Or b) the person fighting has special motives. For example, in TPM, Maul doesn't force push Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan around while he is fighting the two of them. This probably has to do with his preferred style. You can tell Maul enjoys saber action, and he's not going to end the fight prematurely by resorting to the tactics Dooku uses in ROTS. However, make note that eventually Maul has enough with Obi-Wan in TPM and explodes a powerful force push on him. (Which, btw, I think is fueled by Obi-Wan's hate for Maul. After all, Maul had just skewered Qui-Gon, The more hate there is during a battle, the more I think it can be used by someone in the fight to channel into dark side powers. Which is why it seems so easy for Maul to force push Obi-Wan. He just feeds off his anger, adds it to his own, and has the power to use it.) But anyways, another example would be Dooku in AOTC. When he is fighting just Obi-Wan, you can tell he is enjoying the saber fight, he makes a choice not to resort to force pushing. Later when he fights Yoda, I think it's not even an option. Yoda is so on Dooku's butt, he has to use every bit of concentration just to defend himself. And again, in ANH Vader would rather just saber duel with Obi-Wan. He's been looking forward to a rematch, and after losing some limbs to Kenobi, I think Vader is opting to make Kenobi loose some limbs during that duel in ANH. And then you've got the other kind of example: special motives. Such as Vader not really wanting to kill Luke. The one time he force pushes Luke is when he knocks him down into the Carbonite pit. And he also uses force throw later to bludgeon Luke with objects. So, it's not that these powers are not used in the originals, it just that they are used in different ways that go along with the different motives.

    Now onto the modernization of R2 in ROTS. Let's not forget the R2 did have a lot of cool gadgets in the originals: scanners, fire extinguishers, smoke jets, the extendable claw, the electricity zap, the hidden compartment with lightsaber launching ability, and the pizza cutter that nips the ewok net in ROTJ. Let's compare that to what we see in ROTS. R2 catches a comlink in mid-air. Big deal, he used his extendable claw to snatch the flashlight from Yoda in ESB, why not use it here too? R2 spits oil out onto battle droids and then catches them on fire. Not a real stretch here. We already know from ESB that R2 is good at spitting things up. Seeing as how he is an astromech that works with spaceships, it wouldn't be so odd that he'd have some spare fuel somewhere in his innards. And if he has the ability to put out fires in the originals, what's so bad about being able to start them now? Electricity zaps? Been there, done that. I can think of an Ewok butt and Kowakian Monkey Lizard who would testify to that. Oh, and the chain that held Slave Leia captive. But what about R2 jumping out of the starfighters in ROTS? Good question, but I would say that is more of a starfighter ability to launch the droid in question, rather than R2's own ability. No, the hardest stretch of the imagination with R2 in the prequels are his rockets in AOTC. And even they aren't so bad. We've seen how destructive the Clone Wars were, and it's not like the Rebels were getting funds from the Empire. Having updated and starships and droid components was not easy. Imagine if your government took over everything, and you were leading a rebel movement. Access to technology's best, would not be an easy thing to come by. Make the government's bad list and no computer updates for you. Same line of thinking. The Empire gets control of the critical resources by the time of the originals. The rebels have to mix and match and get what they can, and it works within the context of the saga.

    Also, about Padme losing her will to live. It has nothing to do with medical technology and if anything it says that the human spirit overrides medical technology. I thought it was an interesting explanation for her death, and one that isn't simple. Her heart breaks with Anakin's turn and his betrayal to her by choking her has huge impact. I could definitely see why she would loose her will to live, so big was her connection with Anakin, so big were her expectations, so big was the betrayal. To a compassionate person such as Padme, it was inconceivable, over-bearing. And even though she believes there is good in him, apparently she finds comfort in hoping that her kids and Obi-Wan and Yoda will take care of restoring Anakin. And she lets herself slip away.

    On the issue of naming the children. Even though I'm only engaged, my fiance and I already have at least one child's name picked out. This one really isn't a stretch. Sure it would be nice to know why Padme likes those names, but it wasn't exactly a good time to be telling Obi-Wan that.

    And finally, Obi-Wan seeing Leia's birth in ROTS, but then not counting for another hope during Luke's rush off to Bespin in ESB. This is a very good point you bring up. I've been trying to figure this one out ever since seeing the originals. I think the prequels have shed light on it through the characterization of Obi-Wan. Specifically, Obi-Wan is not very trusting of politicians. AOTC and ROTS make this well known. What was Leia raised as? A politician. That is why I think he is hesitant to think of her as possibly being trained as a jedi and helping Yoda and Obi-Wan in the quest to conquer the Emperor and (is it kill or redeem Vader...hmmm ;) ) Yoda is a little more open-minded in this sense. So I think that his prequel characterization out of necessity fixes that potential oddball statement that Obi-Wan makes in ESB.

    Okay, now at least I've caught up to the top of page 2 in replies. More later...

    :tie: :D :tie:
     
  17. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Nice one Big B. It is always illuminating to read your comments.

    As for Obi-Wan not using the Force on Tatooine. Don't we now know that he spent the whole time chatting to Qui-Gon and learning how to become One with the Force? Excellent stuff - that explains his odd actions in ANH so much more.
     
  18. reepnorp

    reepnorp Lim'n Lime Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    All I have to say about it is ROTS is by far my favourite Star Wars movie. I think I enjoyed it so much because in every RPG I play, like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights ans such, I'm always good, but in Star Wars games I'm always as evil as possible. And if I were in Anakin's situation, I would have done the same thing, it may seem weak, but I'd do almost anthing to save the people I love.
     
  19. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Hmm, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go as far as proactively and directly slaughtering loads of kids to save the people I love. That price would be too high for me.
     
  20. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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    Well hey, if they're gonna die anyway, why not kill 'em yourself, hmm?
     
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