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Rampage at Virginia Tech, Blacksburg

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by The Shaman, Apr 17, 2007.

  1. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    [​IMG] It would be scary had he absorbed the 'violent American culture' in the brief time of his stay in the country.... :eek:

    Half a year of exposure and the guy's running amok! Maybe it's the fluoridisdation of the water.... (h/t to Gen. Jack D. Ripper)
     
  2. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Now, now DW... play nice. You forget the only thing many people have to judge us Americans is Hollywood. So many of our movies represent us as super-violent, gun-toting maniacs who will kill over a bad hair day. It really comes as a surprise that there are Americans who do NOT own any guns and don't get into fistfights over the slightest insult.

    However, there is an Isreali connection here...

    Even in great tragedy can compassion and honor be found.
     
  3. revmaf

    revmaf Older, not wiser, but a lot more fun

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    I haven't read all the previous posts - sorry, I'm traveling and have only intermittent Internet connection.

    I used to work on a huge campus - Duke. "Locking down" a campus is nearly impossible. Accomplishing even a limited lockdown in less than several hours is absolutely impossible. We are talking about many dozens of buildings, hundreds of acres, and tens of thousands of people, most of whom are moving between locations at any given time. This is not a one or two building elementary school.

    It is a horrible tragedy. That guns are indeed more easily available in the U.S. no doubt contributed to the ability of the shooter to kill so many people. However, one thing I learned long ago in police academy: murder cannot be prevented. You can prevent burglaries with better locks and alarms, car theft with more ingenious security systems. But murder involves such complicated human motivations and often such persistent behavioral patterns that it can't be prevented. No one wants to hear that, of course.

    I grieve for the university, its students and staff, and especially for its police officers, who could not do what they were sworn to do yesterday: protect the innocent.
     
  4. Vukodlak Gems: 22/31
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    I'm not going to go into whether ad hoc characterisations of US culture are useful or not, but I would like to point out that 'the guy' was South Korean whose whole family lived in the US since '92. Also, it seems that at least one firearm was obtained legally:

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/index.html

    although it would probably be prudent to wait for confirmation.


    On a different not there seem to be all sorts of people coming out with ideas that since he wrote 'disturbing' plays, the kid should have been singled out and that somehow someone could have predicted what would eventually happen... I wonder how? We don't even know why the whole thing happened. Or even whether the kid really had a reason.
     
  5. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I'm afraid that this is one of the more futile Alley arguments. People who own or have owned guns are highly unlikely to agree with any kind of stricter gun laws because they feel threatened by the sheer idea (me? not being able to easily get a gun? never!). Even the mind-boggling figures like the ones above won't be enough to change their minds - there are always countless excuses why the gun situation as it is in the US is just fine and dandy. Oh, and that only MORE guns could solve it. Classic.

    I just wonder how many thousand homicides involving firearms the chunk of US population the size of Britain had last year compared to Britain's 46 firearm homicides last year. Btw, the current population of Britain is actually about 60 million.

    Anyway, here's the source of the quote above.

    And before anyone asks - I'm not saying that if the guy didn't have easy access to guns he certainly wouldn't have gone on a murderous rampage. It'd only be far less likely, not to mention the fact that with any other conveniently obtained weapons he might have killed 3 or 4 people instead of 32 before he was stopped. That's the point to consider.

    [ April 18, 2007, 01:55: Message edited by: Taluntain ]
     
  6. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    Tal, I must admit I love your opinion on this. You are absolutely correct. Here in the states we have had the second amendment since we became a nation. The right to bear arms is an intrinsic part of us. People that do not have this freedom and right will never have the ability to comprehend it.

    My first thought when I heard this was how was it possible that in Virginia nobody on the campus had a concealed weapon and was able to end this madman's rampage. It was only later while reading some blogs I found out that Virginia has a law that prohibits firearms on state college premises. It kind of makes me wonder what would have happened if this had been attempted in a smaller private college.

    People without the right to bear arms would never think this. Whereas I'm curious how many more people would he have killed if he didn't think the police were closing in on him (I'm assuming this)? I've all seen plenty of people who are of the opinion the Virginia legislation basically put up a sign that read "unarmed innocent victims ahead, have a nice day"
     
  7. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    The Great Snook, I can only pity a culture where you need to carry a gun with you to feel safe because you never know when a madman equipped for a rampage will start shooting people around you. This is the reason why no European could ever understand what you feel is your privilege to be anything but an involuntary burden. Would you prefer to live in a country where you felt that there was actually the remotest chance a madman would open fire on people all around you but had easy access to a gun yourself, or would you rather live in a country where you felt that there was practically no chance whatsoever that something like this could happen, but had a slightly more difficult time of obtaining a gun for yourself?

    For me, this is a rhetorical question...

    Personally, I don't think that there's a snowball's chance in hell that the gun situation in the US could be remedied at this point even if an honest effort was made (which is highly unlikely). Considering the sheer amount of guns already out there, even if you put an all-out ban on them there'd probably be enough left on the black market or otherwise obtainable to last the US another 100 years. So if the US really wanted to fix this, it'd take an agenda that every administration for the next 200 years would uphold, not to mention all the individual states.

    Yea, gonna happen as soon as the commies take over the US... :shake:
     
  8. martaug Gems: 23/31
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    the latest info states that he was on anti-depression medicine that may have caused homicidal tendencies. he also was sent to counseling for several plays he had wrote for a class. he is also suspected of stalking several girls.law enforcement persoanl said his 8 page suicide note was a rant against rich kids & religion.
     
  9. The Gatekeeper Gems: 5/31
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    [​IMG]
     
  10. Late-Night Thinker Gems: 17/31
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    Yeah, but technology can certainly facilitate the process.

    I don't think anyone should be allowed to own a handgun. It is a tool designed specifically to murder other human beings. Find another way to feel manly.

    The logical extension of the argument made by members of the gun culture is that the world would be safest if every person carried a weapon. That is so absurd. I repeat, find another way to feel manly. Or stop being scared of everyone. Or whatever. But the guns have got to go.
     
  11. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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    The pro/anti gun argument, as usual (and I don't mean just usual for SP; usual for the debate, wherever it occurs), misses the point.

    The pro-gun people have won. The anti-gun people have lost. There're, what, 200 million firearms in private hands in the US? Realistically speaking, there's no chance they're going to leave circulation.

    The corollary is that the American public, rightly or wrongly, has deemed school shootings and the like to be an acceptable and unavoidable cost of second ammendment rights.
     
  12. Apeman Gems: 25/31
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    Darkwolf

    Yes this is in fact true. If a threat is placed upon a politician or whoever that gun always comes packed on the side of a profesional policeman/bodyguard (not for private hire).

    Honestly I wouldn't even know where to begin looking for a gun in this country. There probably are places but are most certainly that illigal that I feel safer without a gun than shopping for one.

    BTW I disagree with most of his points BTW.

    On a different note, because this topic is all about gun law it seems. They found two plays this korean guy has written.

    Two plays

    I have no idea what to think of this.

    It doesn't really fit the profile of a mass shooter if you ask me. More like a mad 10 year old who just learned to swear.
     
  13. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

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    Not being professional forensic profilers, I dont think any of us can comment, but it is clear that the guy had a lot of troubles in his life, and didnt have an effective way to deal with him.
     
  14. Aikanaro Gems: 31/31
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    I'm reading one of the plays now ... it's really bad. More intelligent comments on them later :)

    Edit: Okay - so ... what's the big deal about the plays? They're not very violent at all. I was expecting the agonising torture of babies or something, this was mild. The second one didn't have any acts of violence, and the first one's violence was over the top and ridiculous.

    If the latest scapegoat for random massacres is people who write violent plays ... well, they're barking even further up the wrong tree than with Doom or Marilyn Manson...

    Edit2: I just read some of the comments - wtf? I don't see why writing violent plays is such a sign that you're a hommicidal maniac. Lots of people write violent stories - it's no great sign or whatever that you're violent or even necessarily angry.

    Let's hope that this doesn't start a wave of persecution against people who like to write violent fiction. 'OMG! A violent story! We should throw him out of school!'

    *sigh*

    [ April 18, 2007, 13:31: Message edited by: Aikanaro ]
     
  15. Goli Ironhead Gems: 16/31
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    Indeed, Aikanaro. Some people vent their anger by writing, and some write violence without any real cause. I sometimes write gory stories of homicidal men who kill and slaughter, but I would never kill anyone in real life. Well, at least not any more or less than any ordinary human. But that's off topic.
    More on the topic, those plays were quite... bad. That's a fitting word.
     
  16. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I strongly disagree with that. There is a guilty party here. The guilty party is one man, and he is unfortunately dead. I say unfortunately because we'll likely never get a good answer to the question "why". Answering such a question would not, of course, bring the victims back, but I imagine that knowing the reason (however difficult to understnad it may have turned out to be) would have provided cold comfort to the families of the victims.
     
  17. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

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    To me they show he had a problem with male authority figures probably stemming from an abusive male parent or guardian. he didnt trust authority, he didnt feel his voice was being heard by those who were supposed to care about him.

    Thus maybe the university and its students became his enemy because of what they represented in his mind.

    I'm no psychologist, thats just what I pick up from his plays.
     
  18. Rallymama Gems: 31/31
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  19. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    Please understand that first of all, I am largely against the gun control lobby in the US. I am for gun education much more.

    That being said, Virginia has the most lax gun control laws in the nation. For the purchase of a rifle, all that is needed is proper ID and a 5-minute FBI background check that only covers criminal convictions. Pistols and other small arms are better, usually requiring a 3-day (I think) police background check that can uncover trouble with police around the nation that never led to arrests, use of perscribed psychopharmacology (anti-depressants), and the like. The rifles need to change.

    THAT being said, the guns were purchased legally, and the man had no record with police. The only warning signs a more thorough background check could have provided was that he had previously been treated for depression. If you're going to prevent everyone that has ever been treated for depression from owning a fire-arm, you're going a little far. Anyway, my point is, even with stricter gun control laws, the kid probably could have still bought the guns legally, and ammo.
     
  20. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    NOG - There are some who have a different opinion:

    That sounds like a pretty easy to me. But the statment may have omitted a few things. Maybe.

     
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