1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Powergaming TNO (minor spoilers)

Discussion in 'Planescape: Torment (Classic)' started by Klorox, Nov 18, 2008.

  1. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,980
    Likes Received:
    7
    I got this from another poster on the gamebanshee website:

    STR 21
    INT 21 (there is one dialogue that does not also check Wisdom)
    WIS 24
    DEX 19 (only applies if the Nameless One is a Thief)
    CON 21 (only applies if Strength is less than 21)
    CHA 25 (24 is required to pass one dialogue check; 25 is required to get the best possible upgrade for Nordom)

    Stat checks.
     
  2. Minstrel Wandering Gems: 2/31
    Latest gem: Fire Agate


    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    4
    Try getting CON to 25 with a fighter at least once, dear friend. You'll have an enormous store of HP and will regenerate so quickly that no wound can keep you down for long...
     
  3. Qwinn Gems: 3/31
    Latest gem: Lynx Eye


    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    2
    I stand corrected on the Luck issue. Yes, in PS:T it is apparently quite powerful. My understanding is that in addition to what I said it does, it also gives +1 to hit, +1 damage, +1 saving throws, +1 to received healing spells, and opponents get -1 to hit and -1 damage. Definitely way better than any stat point of anything else.

    Qwinn
     
  4. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,088
    Media:
    57
    Likes Received:
    47
    And the Thief gets a +FIVE to luck on specialisation? :jawdrop:

    I think we can officially say the Thief's specialisation bonus is by FAR the most overpowered in the game.
     
  5. Minstrel Wandering Gems: 2/31
    Latest gem: Fire Agate


    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    4
    Hmm, I have played thieves from start to completion
    (going immediately to Ratbone at the outset of the game for training)
    and played my thief characters to a very high level. I have also played pure fighters with an emphasis on CON and STR to a very high level.

    I was not parsing any data of any sort but did not notice any significant leaps in power with my thieves? Backstabs, when hit, did quite well in the damage department, but often missed.

    The problem might have been that my pure thieves focused on getting WIS and AGI to 25 first and foremost, instead of adding to STR for better THAC0.

    Still, better THAC0 is best achieved with high STR, weapon specializations, and the fighter THAC0-per-level bonus, is it not...?

    I'm intrigued now, dear friends...if anyone could share real parsed data that can prove a high-level thief with realistic stat advancement is more powerful than a 25 CON/STR fighter, I would be much obliged.
     
  6. Qwinn Gems: 3/31
    Latest gem: Lynx Eye


    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    2
    Where did you get this from? Dan Simpson's walkthrough says +1. I'm also not sure what "+3 luck for 25 wis" means, or at least where that info comes from. Never heard it before.

    Qwinn
     
  7. kmonster Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    25
    The info comes from http://www.rpguides.de/pst/artikel.php?aid=6

    Thieves can only get 2 luck more that the other classes (+1 specialisation, +1 tattoo), every class can get +3 luck for 25 wis, +1 for the redeemer tattoo and at least +1 from other sources, so it's not that overpowered.
     
  8. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,088
    Media:
    57
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ignore me, I confused the +5 lore that the mage gets with the +1 luck that the thief gets. Oops.
     
  9. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,980
    Likes Received:
    7
    Is there any proof to this "understanding"?
    Does anybody here speak German?
     
  10. kmonster Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    25
    You can use an online dictionary or a webpage translation program.

    Interesting are mainly the tables (wisdom - XP bonus, wisdom - luck bonus, constitution - regeneration), you know the other facts from other sources.

    Weisheit = wisdom
    Ehrfahrung = experience
    Glück = luck
    Konstitution = constitution
    Regenerationswert = regeneration value
    TP = Trefferpunkte = hitpoints
    sek = Sekunden = seconds
     
  11. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,980
    Likes Received:
    7
    I'm just curious as to why the only source we can pull this info from on an American game is on a German website. I'm a tiny bit suspicious, is all.
     
  12. Qwinn Gems: 3/31
    Latest gem: Lynx Eye


    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    2
    Well, actually, the producer of the game was German, and the only language Black Isle produced a translation for was German. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the designers who knew what went into the game were German too. So that doesn't necessarily mean the info's provenance is especially suspect. As reliable as anything else on the internets. And everything there matches up with my understanding of how stats work, the only thing entirely new to me is the luck bonus granted by high wisdom. If that's the case, then the bit about luck > any other stat isn't quite true... wisdom is definitely arguably still king.

    As for the source of the understanding of what luck actually does, ugh, I was actually looking at it while typing that post but having trouble finding it now. But. Take a look at the description of the Luck spell:

    That covers most of it, plus "and the like". If I can find the source for the precise list I gave, I'll update.

    Qwinn
     
  13. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,980
    Likes Received:
    7
    I didn't know that Quinn!

    I personally still lean towards the Fighter class, though it's not necessarily for powergaming reasons: I like switching classes for certain appropriate parts of the game, and I like the NPC Annah. But if TNO is a Thief, I really don't have a powergaming need for Annah in the party, which stinks for when you want to switch classes around.
     
  14. kmonster Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    25
    If you're powergaming without fighting respawning monsters you won't keep party members for longer than a few minutes since they take away valuable XP. For switching classes there are trainers.
     
  15. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,980
    Likes Received:
    7
    Yeah, but Annah is a portable trainer. ;)

    I noticed something playing last night: Dak'kon advanced to level 10 for me and got 5 HP + CON bonus, which he shouldn't have.

    Would a single-classed Fighter gain full HP at level 10?
     
  16. Qwinn Gems: 3/31
    Latest gem: Lynx Eye


    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yes, he would. I looked into this. All classes in PS:T get full hit dice up to and including level 10. No one gets a full hit die at level 11. So previous posts discussing how to maximize hp based on the notion that some classes get full hit dice longer than others were wholly incorrect.

    Yes, I realize this makes the manual horribly, terribly wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

    Qwinn
     
    Klorox likes this.
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.