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POLL: Satanism...

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Loerand, Jun 19, 2003.

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  1. randomreuben Gems: 1/31
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    Dear RPGers,

    Satanism starts with the assumption that there is no God. I shall show you what problems this causes for Satanism.

    Sin does not exist in the absence of God because sin is the reaction to God's laws. God's law says 'Do not covet', and the sin in us wants to covet.

    If there were no God, and none of God's laws, then sin would cease to exist, because without God's laws that asked us not to covet, we would not know that to covet would be a sin.

    Since Satanism assumes that there is no God, but still tries to deal with sin, Satanism becomes irrelevant. If Satanism is to work, then it must take into account that God does exist.

    Christianity is about living under grace. I do apologise if in your experience, Christianity has been made to look like earning Heaven under good works, but it is hardly the case. Man is unable to gain Heaven by doing good deeds. Man is only able to gain Heaven by accepting Jesus Christ as his/her Savior. Read the book of Romans in the Bible for an excellent coverage of this topic.

    Satanism wants to straddle both the fences of having no God and so assuming that Satanism is the best option, and also having a God, so that Satanism has sin to argue with. This seems like a logical fallacy.

    If Satanism takes into account that there is a God, then it puts itself in a very dangerous position because a mere mortal Mr. LaVey (who is made by God) is trying to tell others only how to try to live "good" lives. He does not explain how to get to Heaven, and indeed his way is doomed to failure.

    Take care,

    Reuben
     
  2. Mathetais Gems: 28/31
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    Bravo, Huzzah, Three Cheers for Ruben!

    *passes the mantal of Protector of the Faith and Logic to the new guy*

    Egocentric? That is exactly what Satan is about. If God exists, he doesn't matter. You can be equal to God, you can surpass God (sound like the Garden of Eden??)

    Satan doesn't get people to dig up crypts ... he gets them to believe that they are the center of the universe. That's all he needs to do ... because once that battle is won, he gets their souls for eternity in Hell.
     
  3. Aikanaro Gems: 31/31
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    Personaly I think that Satanism (as defined by the more logical people) makes more sense than Christianity. However I have no wish to get involved in either, or any religion whatsoever for that matter.
    Satan/satanism in just the Churches scapegoat for everything that goes wrong. When in doubt, blame it on someone else.
    But then, Satanism has a whole heap of crap lodged in there as well.
    So the last word from me, religion is bound to have some crap somewhere, so its best just to stay out of it all.
     
  4. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Depends. LaVey seems not really to believe in Satan. 'True' satanists believe in both God and Satan, but choose Satan over God. Christians for example believe there's God and Satan but they choose God over Satan.

    Satanael, enemy of God. Used to be Samael, the light of God.

    Satanism is an antithesis of Christianity.

    Exactly and that's Satan's job since the fall of Adam and Eve in Eden.

    Agreed (disclaimer: not fully on Wicca). Satanism wouldn't even have had a beginning without the faith in God if it be Christianity, Judaism or Islam. They don't build but destroy and don't seek but twist. Satanism includes mental laziness, lowliness of character, weakness of will and spirit plus a curved perspective from which to perceive the world.

    [ June 20, 2003, 20:57: Message edited by: chevalier ]
     
  5. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    I am more or less on the same line as Depaara here. For me "Satanists" are more or less teenagers, who got dumped by a girl, get bullied in school or couldn't make it in football. Now there angry and frustrated, and let it out on tombstones or bunnies.

    It's the same like, if you really want to freak out your parents and be something special, put a swastika on the wall.
     
  6. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Veteran

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    I think you are all blinded by the name of the philosophy. As far as I can understand so has Satanism nothing to do with either God or Satan. Just a silly name. It might as well be called Egocentrism or something.

    I am not at all a follower mostly because I think follownig somethnig special is kinda silly. I prefer to make my own decisions and trust my own judgets, which happens to be a tenet of that Satanism thingy as far as I can see. Still doesnt make a follower in the slightest.
     
  7. Malaqai Gems: 4/31
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    Satanism is anti-christianity. And that is that. And I am roman-chatolic, and damn proud of it. And I think that anyone dumb enough to worship evil and deny the Lord should be shot.
     
  8. Kiranos Gems: 4/31
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    *laughing* what is evil if not to shoot another man/woman for nothing more than difference of opinion, You are just as stupid and ignorant as any dictator ruling by tyranny. Damn if all believing Christians would think like this the world would have been dead for a very long time...

    I really hope that you are smarter than this...
     
  9. Late-Night Thinker Gems: 17/31
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    As far as I can tell the greatest aspect of being a Satanist is all the great ATTENTION it gives you. Believing in God is just so darn ordinary and saying I'm an athiest (which is how you describe Satanism anyway) is so run of the mill...but if I say I am a Satanist...well then bring on the people trying to save me and the people who tell me how wrong I am. Either way, it's all just big gobs of desperatly needed ATTENTION.
     
  10. Kiranos Gems: 4/31
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    Just to clarify something I don’t practise Satanism, I don’t wear the so called satanic clothes. I don’t even think that anyone in my closer circle of friends know anything about Satanism. I just like to explore different philosophies and use them to get the most out of life… but yes I do agree with a lot of what is being said in Satanism. And yes LaVey used and took the word Satanism to (as I see it) make a bigger impact on the world, any press is great weather it is good or bad…

    I do recommend everyone to read the satanic bible even if you are a strong believer in Christianity. A religion our morals are based upon, and have done it well for the most part. Explore and learn, it’s never too late to learn more about life…
     
  11. Shura Gems: 25/31
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    I had to post in this topic.

    All my life, I've never agreed with any moral compass offered by any religion except my own. Until the day I came across the tenets of the satanic bible and hey, presto! This is exactly how I've been living all these years! So I voted 'yes' in the poll above.

    I have never called myself a satanist, nor made it a point to get attention.

    Personally, I would rather hide behind my ego than any deity, but I'm not here to make any arguments for/against the benefits of any religion.( political correctness, the sheer number of flames that will be surely directed my way and the tendency of some(one) to go running to the mods put me off debating anything serious on these boards)

    Satanism is not a religion for me. Neither is it the antithesis of Christianity to me because I've gotten to the point of ignoring that particular religion a long time ago. It is my way of life, my philosophy and my moral guide. It is about ME!

    Spoken like a true satanist.
     
  12. Arabwel

    Arabwel Screaming towards Apotheosis Veteran

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    Well, according to my nmedical files I anm. They slapped me with the title of "Satanic worshipper" when I was 14 becaus eI was interested in demonology (Blame Good Omens for that... :rolleyes: wore black, was an agressive ***** and had beleeding wounds on my person. Add to that my mother's excageerrations abnd the fact that the words I used were too bigh for the people I talked to... instant labelization... :rolleyes:

    But seriously... In the context of "I don't worshhip God so I worship Satan" I am not one, for I don't believe in either. But in the context of "There is no greater ebtity so the only one responsible for my success or failure is myself"::: Hell yeah!

    *hugs Shurs*

    *realizes what she did, eeps, and starts to back away very quickly*

    I used to be a Christian. Then, I got disillusioned. Later, there was a brief period of time when i though I had began to believe again, but later I realized that it was only a vain attmept in trying to associate myself more fully with people I admired. That was beefore I was dragged away from tghe somewhat comfortable hell that was my life before the hell it is now... the hell that has taught me that there is no one to trust but yourself, no one to give you anything but yourself, no one to blame for ****ups but yourselfs. I know taht my life hass been screwed over by other people, and that there is virtually nothing I could have done to prevent it. But the point is... virtually.

    I am with Shura in this one. *nods*
     
  13. Malaqai Gems: 4/31
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    But that is just it! You were given free will to choose and to deny goodness if you want to, but the fact that you deny it doesn't make it allright. It is not allright to guide your life accordig to the opinion "it's all about me."
    It's not. Your life is not in your control. You affect petty things concerning it....nothing big. I for one would like to live forever, but I am most definitely going to die. And because of that reason alone must I, with hope in my eyes, grip and hold and love the idea that there is meaning to it all. And the Lord gives it meaning.
     
  14. Laches Gems: 19/31
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    Are we talking about satanism or Ayn Rand's ethical egoism?
     
  15. Kiranos Gems: 4/31
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    And how do I know that my life aint nothing but a dream I will wake up from eventually? How do I know that those trees will not disappear when I look the other way? How do I know if the world will cease to exist when my lights go out? How do I know if I’m in the centre of the world we are living in?

    What I do know is that I’m in the centre of my life and my world, and I’m not wasting it by handing it over to someone else… Take control and start living your dream as I'm sure LaVey would have said if he was still alive...
     
  16. Shura Gems: 25/31
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    @Malaqai: Does the denial of the Christian god imply a lack of goodness, or morality? Not everyone needs a deity to tell them what to do.

    Admittedly, I am one psychopathically violent and malicious bastard but I do not speak for myself in this case. I have met people who, for most purposes, behave in extremely decent and even kind-hearted ways without being a Christian.

    Yes, a person without power can affect his/her life to only a little extent. But that's what life is all about, isn't it? The accumulation of power, (status, wealth, physical and intellectual aspects) so that one can have a larger say over his/her existence is what drives us ungodly ones. We do not trust any other being, no matter how purportedly divine to decide our future.

    I believe in the power of One. Of man/woman. And any cause or goal unattainable through my own toil and prowess is not worth it, in my opinion.

    I have studied the bible as a textbook for over 2 years so claims of ignorance regarding the salvation offered by Christianity do not apply to me. I know what's being offered. I simply choose to reject it. If, (IF) the bible is right, I still choose an eternity of brimstone, torment and hellfire over having to call any being lord.

    I walk the path of the (so-called) satanist. Not out of any wish to attract attention, nor to smug in my own individuality, but to simply follow the philosophy that suits me best.
     
  17. Morgoth

    Morgoth La lune ne garde aucune rancune Veteran

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    Actually, free will can also be merely a reflection of the mechanical workings of the brain.

    How do you know you're not the worshipper of the devil? Isn't Satan perfect in lying?
    Waitasec, doesn't that make his words the truth??
    Doesn't he then bring knowledge as he was meant to do??

    Actually, lately I've become more agnostic, isn't conviction the greatest enemy of the truth?

    [ June 23, 2003, 11:14: Message edited by: Morgoth ]
     
  18. Intentioner of the Damned Gems: 14/31
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    The fact that people keep going back to bad childhood and the killing of bunnies shows that they really are narrow minded and just aren't reading the posts that have gone before them.

    This is pretty much the same as me. I was brought up Christian but my family have never really been big church-go-ers. Up until a few weeks ago, i'd never heard of the Satanic Bible, until a friend of mine was reading it out of interest. She then told me what it was all about, and the ideas behind Satanism. It instantly occured to me that this was exactly the way in which i had been living for years.
    And to stop comments about childhood being aimed at me, i was fortunate enough to have a reasonably care-free, problem-free childhood, so it has nothing to do with that.
     
  19. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    Still, the definition of satanism is lacking. And there are now many different versions, what it should mean. I stay with my frustrated teenager explanation. It's not about narrowmindend, I think, it's just that bunny-killers are usually the people who are called "satanists", at least here.

    The other version, that book seems to me, following the given description, something like, you, youself and how to live. Actually seem like a trivial version of 19th century philosophy, I think. If you define that as satinism, that's your privilege. I would give that name to that. Seems more like, find truth in yourself.

    I don't think someone is a "satanist", if that someone answers the "Gretchen"-question (do you believe in god like you should ?) with no. "Satanism" as title of that book sounds to me like a label to sell it.
     
  20. Malaqai Gems: 4/31
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    @Shura
    You missunderstood me. I am not preaching the word of the bible, I am not accusing anyone who is not a christian. This is not about christianity. I am just saying that every religion in the world preaches things that are, in essence, the same. And to reject the teachings of so many great men (Jesus, Buddha, Confucius, Mohamed....) is loco. I am no great believer nor do I pretend to be. But you embrace evil. And any atheist struggles against evil. Because evil is....EVIL. A bad thing. And you know it. And if you are so angry and violent as you claim, why do you not deny the law of your country? Why don't you break them. I'll tell you why. Because you fear punishment. And otherworldy punishment still seems far away to you. But it isn't.
     
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