POLL: Potentially Allowing Ragusa and Darkwolf to Post in AoDA & AoLS Again

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I have to vote yes as anyone staying around for so long without posting rights is dedicated to the site. Let em in.
I also want to say at the same time that US bashing that came in on almost all conversations on any subject has stopped me form posting.

 

It's a shame, but remember that many base these on something, base this on previous experiences. If we're not allowed to speak critically about the nation boasting themselves as the land of the free, then what use is the AoLS?

 

Well, yet another person that fits Tal's unexpected demographic - never saw it, dunno what all the big deal was about.

*peruses 'culprit' threads*

Ah. Seen a few of those in USENET or fora - they were basically ignored after a while, got bored with a lack of response and either adapted themselves into the froup or just left.

*checks further*

Hmmm...interesting...each seems to have a decent sense of humor at times - like any other BoM'er. But...

...where exactly have either *posted* since october of last year? They haven't posted *anywhere* I can see in about a year, yet they are still "willing to return"? Call me Advocatus Diaboli but I get a silly image of a couple of barbarians sitting outside a city gate, waiting patiently and playing rock-paper-scissors to pass the time.


Well, both seem to have clearly-defined views, and as long as everyone else remembers that, I don't see much risk of future strife; the occasional 'drama,' but the Alleys haven't stopped that in the absence of these two gentlemen. And I'm a firm believer of reminding myself of differing opinions to my own - the occasional extreme example helps keep a 'relative standing' in my mind. Add to which, my skimming gives me the impression of interesting minds behind these posts and opinions.

Well, the worst thing that can happen is that a few alley-dwellers get incited, and some mods get a little extra work - that's the closest to a 'net loss' in this situation.

Not to mention that if ye don't let them back, we'll all wonder if it was the right decision and never be able to be sure...


(besides, winter's starting to take hold up here and I could use something to keep warm )

 

Technically I think I've been around long enough. My original account is this one: http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/profile/5449.html, and I lurked for a good long time before creating that account. That said, I rarely visits the forums in question. I come to this site for the games, not to get in political debates.

With that disclaimer out of the way, it sounds to me that plenty of time has passed, and a couple of longtime, dedicated board members are surely worthy of another chance. If they blow their second chance, then that should answer the question of this topic once and for all. If they don't, well that's a good answer too!

It's not like anyone is going to die, or lose their life savings over this decision. So, go for it, says I

 

Absolutely let them back in.
To be honest, I was disapointed they were banned in the first place, it's always interesting to get a fresh perspective on something. Half the fun of the Alleys is reading other peoples arguments.

I'd have really liked to have seen a three-way discourse between them and Svy, any chance of inviting him back?!

I also found it useful as news stories came up which didn't reach our media. I could then some further, slightly less biased, research on the subject.

 

No, no, NO, no, no, and no.

The difference between Svy and Darkwolf/Ragusa is that the latter two provide something to a discussion, Svyatoslav did not. He refused to listen to anyone but him, and called everyone that wasn't a fascist to be biased, refusing to listen to sources that weren't written by fascist authors and apologists.

And don't even get me started on his supportal of the genosides in Spain, by the Slavic parts of the Red Army, and by the Wermacht. Ugh.

 

Yeah, Svy is an other case than Darkwolf/Ragusa. I would not support Svy's return.

 

Spoilsports.

I was being sarcastic, but I don't see how you can get so worked up about someones who's obviously a complete loony tune.

 

Yeah... this is a gaming site... but we are kind of family-like here, and it ends up that most of us post in Whatnots, AoLS, and AoDA rather than the gaming sections anyways.

No... no they weren't.

 

Even though I spend little time in the Alley these days, I feel it's an excellent idea. But it would appear that most of the old timers, who would remember them, are gone.

 

Well, if Ragusa stops posting monologues and treating threads like his own blog (as stated earlier in the topic), I see no harm in it, though I'm not really an Alley regular.

Indifferent about Darkwolf, though.

 

If they learn how to discuss like grownups and we won't react to them as touchy crybabies, then yes, please, let them in. I think they have done their time in the BoM's Spellhold long enough and should be given a second chance.

 

Well this "old one" is still around -- and I almost didn't post my opinion here, since it is clearly in the minority. I had always thought that Ragusa and DW were asked to cease posting in those forums, not only for attacking each other -- but for attacking OTHERS as well....i.e. in Ragusa's case, the non-stop degrading comments about American policy AND it's citizens. Asking Ragusa to stop writing inflammatory posts such as that is like asking a tiger to drop its stripes -- ain't gonna happen.

Oh -- and what many of you new posters may not realize, is that he wasn't just asked to leave those forums without any warnings. He was given many, many warnings to stop the American "slam" posting, but simply couldn't. So I really don't see this as his "second chance".

I vote NO.

 

Hmm... If we are at it, I believe Ragusa has many times been "moderated" by non-moderators, so if we let him back in, we need to make sure that doesn't happen because, after all, the rules apply to everyone and not just to him. I don't always like the tone of his posts but I often find the replies he gets to be more inflammatory than what he writes.

Also, according to my knowledge, he's been given warnings to tone down the intensity of his evaluations and make things more civil in some cases and mind the feelings of the readers more, but he hasn't really been given warnings to stop criticising American politicians and policies, as it were... In fact, I don't even think that's a generic offence. What's an offence is being rude or contrfactual and with that let's deal.

[ November 24, 2006, 21:22: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

Positive.

Though to be honest, I don't really get the whole concept of asking them back...it's a bit of an artificial way of making the alley more colourful IMO.

 

chevalier -- he was given warnings about stepping over the line and slamming Americans, not just their politics.

 

If he can come up with something to back his arguments, I can't see why he should be prevented from talking about people's attitudes or made to pretend that what he sees as a general pattern is a loose number of unconnected incidents. The moment one stops being civil, or starts making absurd claims one can't possibly verify, that's where there's a problem. But in a hypotetical exchange like, "Americans should lose some of the exceptionalist attitude and start applying the same standards to themselves as to other nations and people they judge," "Hatred speaks through you, you're rude, you've just offended every single American on the boards..." I'm more inclined to like Ragusa's way of framing thoughts, no matter if I actually agree with them or not. I suppose a general, massive, concentrated and continual critique of the national traits of a certain nation can be majorly annoying, but it's not like Ragusa actually does that. It surely would be nicer if he posted in other forums more and made the amount of critical threads in the Alley more followable, but we have a lot more comments about the attitudes of people of a certain nationality or religion or whatever than just Ragusa's ever recurring point about American exceptionalist attitudes. Of course, if he actually breaks a rule, he should be punished like everyone else, but I think this holds also for the replies he gets, and keeping him out doesn't invalidate his points, whether they are real or not. I'm getting the impression that the fact that he brings some things up tends to be more problematic than the style in which he does it and I wouldn't like to think that.

 

There's a certain recent poster here in this thread who is far worse than Ragusa and Darkwolf to be honest. Aye, let 'em back