POLL: Meeting Blink 182 times...

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Their new stuff is not as good as their old but I'm with Sniper here. Just because they're not totaly serious doesn't mean that they cannot be good.
Lets go for round three.

 

Xaelifer, I'd say you're a bit out of line here with your comments about metal. Maybe I didn't get you right, but it seems like you are listing metal under the type of music that is "marketed to teenagers who are gullible to literally anything that is loud, obnoxious, and rebellious...", or that you are saying that the "detention and expulsion of other musical (as well as emotional) genres" is relevant to metal?

I disagree with both statements. People who say that metal picks money out of some deprived teen's hands by giving him a 5 minute adrenaline rush and a sense of power and agression, don't know much about metal at all.
First of all, not all metal offers agression. There are many sub-genres in both rock and especially metal, with the latter being a sub-genre of the first. The complexity of these divisions of metal is really immense. Many of them intervene and "borrow" elements from the other, and are often combined with different types of music, like classical (duh!). A lot of metal uses complicated arrangements, not-so-average lyrics (which can make your grandma faint), and other aspects which don't make it very popular and easy to listen.

And yes, there is a lot of rebel spirit in metal, and some people could say that, while pop music serves just to make money out of the mainstream public - metal serves as a tool for making money out of others, who want to be different, rebellious, etc. I wouldn't agree with that. It is a sad fact that all music must make profit in order to exist. But comparing metal to the mtv's golden goose bands doesn't meet common sense. Metal is not very profitable. Many bands can't even live normally out of the records sale and often have regular jobs along with playing and touring. Of course, there are bigger bands such as Maiden, but those are nothing compared to the others which have paved their way to fortune via agressive marketing and constant radio play.

About shunning other tastes, I can say that there is no truth in that. Here's a little history lesson: metal, as a heavier derivate from rock inherited it's way of costructing a song which uses mainly minor pentatonic and BLUES scales (speaking about guitar solos here, an unavoidable aspect of metal). Many guitar players naturally took up to alot of CLASSICAL influences using melodic and harmonic minor scales and scale modes, arpeggios, legato playing...etc.
So, when we are talking about that, I think that many metal fans like and respect other types of music. Musicians certainly drag a whole lot of influences. I could speak about it for days.
Even though I never really bought a jazz cd or never really understood jazz, I absolutely hold the greatest admiration to the kind of musicianship and skill that means complete improvisation. And I like metal...

So metal really doesn't barr other musical genres. People who stick to only one type of music and trash all others really don't deserve a comment.

And Xaelifer, if you say that you listen to metal once in a year, I would really want to know which are those bands you cathegorise as metal...

I think this also sums up my opinion about Blink 182. A product, nothing more, nothing less.
Sniper, if you want to become a good guitar played, I'd advise you to seek other influences.
And, originality exists. Check out Dream Theater, for instance. Nu-metal doesn't even deserve to be mentioned...

 

Dream Theater Rocks!
Portnoy is one of the best drummers ever.

@Elendil
I don't think the Xae said that

for metal but for Blink 182.

 

Wow, to tell you the truth i wouldn't have even guessed that they had 6 albums out. Wow, so they have been out quite a while.

Thanks Sniper, i will take advice and i will go and get it.

 

Elendil, I don't just reflect upon Blink 182 only for my guitaring style. I do look at other bands and I do not just lock myself to just one genre of music. I listen to a variety.

Examples of other bands:
Queen
Fleetwood Mac
Iron Maiden
AC/DC
Pink floyd
The Offspring
Papa Roach
Feeder
System of a Down
[Spunge]

I have a load more but thats just to name a few. Anyways, as for Dream Theatre, i have heard them and I must admit, their playing style doesn't appeal to me though the bassist is a kewl dude.

 

Alright...let's go down the list here.

Aziraphale: Yes, you are correct. I should specify that select numbers, not all, of the teenagers are influenced by everything I said. (Sigh)...generalism is the eleventh sin...

Methylviolet: Whoops!

Herf: I love you. Will you marry me?

S Goddess: Eeek! Excuses! Excuses! Where? Where! Why? When? For what? Oooh, I hope they aren't long, boring, and literate excuses! (note to self: bluhhhhh...)

Sniper: Hmm. It depends on what you mean by 'original'. If you mean "not copied from something else; fresh; inventive", then I'd have to disagree. Every band is slightly more original, no, no, slightly different than the rest - just some more than others. Blink 182 is on the low end of the scale, because it delivers the same sound of ten thousand other bands around the world. The high end of the scale is filled by bands with extreme new sound and approach to music...oh...lessee...: Dave Matthews Band is possibly the most 'original' band of the last two decades. Blues Traveler is still around. Bela Fleck and the Flecktones are extremely original, along with each of their single bandmembers' CDs.

I do agree that there are fewer good sprouts now then in the past.

Erm...I've been saying all along that Blink 182 was created for a market, and since their creation, they've simply been dancing puppets for a huge, huge, huge corporate paycheck. Thus, yes, everything is planned out and written for them. This probably includes song lyrics to charm the teenagers, although their music is so easy to write and play you could do it without arms, legs, or brain whilst being trampled by a herd of elephants.

(Note: If you want to have a little influence on the guitar, get some things by these people:

John Mclaughlin (I think that's how you spell it)
Victor Wooten
George Benson
Andres Segovia
Tim Reynolds

-these are some of the most influential guitarists of all time. Don't restrict yourself to music you like, either, if you ever want to be really good.

And if you want kazoo lessons, just ask!)

Elendil: Yeah. Generalized again. Sure, you could point out the good apples, but bringing out the bad ones usually saves more lives, if you get my meaning. I would agree that some Metal has a style and influence all its own, without greedy standoffs.

Oh, and...uh...EVERYTHING comes from Blues scales. Blues is the grand-daddy of modern music; the only other daddy is classical (and blues has many more children - cause "all God's children got blues"). Metal is simply a use of the pentatonic scale in a different way, speed, size, blah, blah, what have you? It's the same way with rock, jazz, new age...

But the musical influence of Metal has nothing to do with anything I said. And I didn't really categorize it into "marketed to teenagers who are gullible to literally anything that is loud, obnoxious, and rebellious..." either.

***ROUND 4... And right here in your very own Sorcerer's Place, in the corners are:

 

I'm not going to arguee with any one but just to let you all know how much I like Blink 182....I have all 6 of their cd's.

 

Xaelifer, please name all of these so called copyed bands(this is people that Blink 182 copied off of, people who copy off them are been unoriginal, not Blink 182)

And there off for round four with Dragon Rider Syward taking a weak swing at no one and Zaknafein on a cautious attack against Xaelifer...

 

Yeah, Dream Theater is brilliant! Portnoy is great, but the main reason DT is that good is definitely John Petrucci!
Viva Majesty!

Sniper, good pick with May, Young, Murray-Smith-Gers, for a start. I'd personally remove Papa Roach...just my opinion. Of course, it's up to you to decide about your influences.

Xaelifer, I wasn't pointing out just the good apples. I was saying that metal is a very dubious genre when it comes to market value. It seems to me you don't know much about metal. The difficulty of playing metal is second only to jazz and classical. It is very demanding. Requires a huge dedication to the instrument. And you won't get much with it. More probably, you won't get anything...
So, why then bother with scales? Why bother with harmonies? Why bother with harmonics? Why even bother trying to learn how to play good? Why bother with vocal training?
Isn't it much more simpler just to patch two power chords and serve the masses "Nookie"?
Or just start a boy band?
And, since you are such a huge Dave Matthews Band fan, didn't they hit it big on MTV with "The Space Between"? I'd say that gives them a greater commercial edge than any metal band I can think of...

When I was stating the influences and the roots of metal I was trying to proove that the "detention and expulsion of other musical (as well as emotional) genres" isn't a metal thing, and that it definitely isn't "imbued into the listener after hearing the music...". Such a thing depends solely on the narrowness of one's mind...

What's this? Are you saying that those types of music solely differ on the use of the pentatonic scale? I think you know well that the solos, especially in metal, not to mention jazz, go far beyond the simple pentatonic...
PS. I'd really like to know the names of your metal bands. Really...

[ August 05, 2002, 15:16: Message edited by: Elendil ]

 

This comes to mind...when did most of you blink 182 fans start to like blink?

 

Elendil, sure Petrucci is a great guitarist, but I am playing drums, so as you can understand I can't have a guitarist as an influence The reason why I like Portnoy is especially for his technique. He doesn't play very fast (like Hellhammer, for example), but very technically and moreover most of the Theater songs have difficult drum tabs.

 

On a side note to something Xaelifer said, one of my favorite lines is "Country and the blues had a baby, and they named it rock'n'roll" A nice description of rock's roots.

 

Uhhh...have you ever heard of The Offspring, or Green Day?!?!?! Don't get me wrong, I love Blink 182, but I think The Offspring and Green Day are way better...but thats the only punk I like...I prefer: Rob Zombie, Metallica, Rage Against the Machine, Korn, Sublime, Godsmack, and Smashing Pumkins. Expect a new poll on music soon...

 

bloody hell, go away for a few weeks and the world turns topsy-turvy. here we have several people agreeing with xaelifer. what's going on?

i think blink 182 are far too catchy for their own good. they'll never be taken seriously as a metal band because of their massive teeny-bopper fan base, which they continue to pander to... but mostly because their songs get into my head and refuse to leave, even when asked nicely.

 

Well, I'm leaving this one up to you. I'm sorry, but I can't list a bunch of bands that Blink 182 copied off of, or Metal fans adore. Moreover, I don't care enough to. Why? Well...

Bite, you get bitten
Fight, you get fought
High on the pulpit
It does mean a lot

Fanning the flames
with opinion of fire
Change was the promise
but Change is a liar

So here - on the deathbed
We look back a lot
That Fire was for change
--But now... it's for naught.

 

LOL The God! thats good!

Round 4:

Eh ... Xaelifer, whats that all about? the whole lyric thing?

DragonRider SkyWard, in all honesty, i first heard the Enema of the State album and i loved it! Since then I've been collecting their albums and all i have left to aquire is their Buddah album.

Xaelifer

I think you'll find that other bands have their sound based on Blink 182. Quick examples are 'Sum41' and 'New Found Glory'. Then again, they have a slightly different sound from each other just like every other band i've heard and I'm open to those that think otherwise.

I think not. We are not talking about Pop here. Also, if you actually listen to their riffs, you'll find that they aren't exactly what we call 'easy'. Actually, have you heard all of their songs? I doubt it. I mean, sure songs like 'All the small things' are pretty much pure power chords etc. but have you heard their more intelligent songs like 'Stay together for the kids', 'Story of a lonly guy' and 'Carousel' to name a few?

Either ways, if we want to talk about guitaring influences, dig up my old thread and post them there. Not here.

Note: round 4 midway, Sniper swings at all that have a hint of 'anti' in them

 

I'd say that Xaelifer wants to say that there is no point in arguing about the topic (and beyond) anymore.
But I don't agree. I'm always here to argue
And, if Xaelifer has backed up - that means I can celebrate my victory!

Sirdan, unlike you, I'm playing a real instrument which takes a lot more to learn than a pile of boxes and trash cans...

That basically means that, while you're playing Portnoy, I'm still stuck with "Old Mac Donald Had A Farm"...
And again, I eagerly join your praises of MP.
Hellhammer? Umm, sounds familiar...Is that a black metal related drummer?

 

Tom delonge was voted no.46 best guitarist ever ... thats ahead of the greenday guy ... kewl! Hmm ... guess Blink 182 can't be as bad as half the people say then

Round 5?