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POLL: Flail of Ages +3 or Celestial Fury +3?

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by Klorox, Sep 29, 2004.

  1. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mĂȘnu! Veteran

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    Which is more powerful?

    Poll Information
    This poll contains 1 question(s). 59 user(s) have voted.
    You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

    Poll Results: Flail of Ages +3 or Celestial Fury +3? (59 votes.)

    Flail of Ages +3 or Celestial Fury +3? (Choose 1)
    * Flail of Ages - 49% (29)
    * Celestial Fury - 51% (30)
     
  2. Tassadar Gems: 23/31
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    Both weapons are very nice, but I voted Flail of Ages. The 33% slow effect and multiple elemental damage, plus the ability to hurt clay golems beats celestial fury's stun ability and better raw damage.
     
  3. Abomination Gems: 26/31
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    Provide the statistics so we can compare please.
     
  4. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mĂȘnu! Veteran

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    IMHO, it's a tiny bit harder to get Celestial Fury, but both are possible with a low-level party.
     
  5. Baronius

    Baronius Mental harmony dispels the darkness ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    A general hint: stats are just dry numbers. When comparing two weapons, their usability in the GAME and other game-related features should be considered. So first of all, I don't think that someone who doesn't even remember them can have a significant opinion but of course in democracy every citizen(=registered forum member) can vote once! ;)

    By the way Flail of Ages is much more versatile in my opinion (and since we're in ToB forum, I don't forget to mention that its upgraded version is the most versatile weapon of the game)
     
  6. Advanced Simplicity Gems: 4/31
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    At the top of my head...

    Flail of Ages +3

    1d6+3 +1fire +1cold +1acid

    33% Target is slowed (no save)

    So damage potential on the weapon is: 7-12
    That's solid damage but you must also consider that the +3 different elemental damage gets added last so in the case of a critical hit or when your just calculating damage it's the 1d6+3 thats taken into consideration.

    Celestial Fury

    1d10+3 (4-13 dmg potential)

    Target must save vs spells or be stunned
    There's also a 5% chance of 20 additional damage

    So if a Fighter with ** pips and has 18 strenght has a total of +6 to damage (+2 from profencies and +4 from strenght) strikes with FoA+3 and let's say he rolles 6+3+6=15+1+1+1 = total of 18 damage.

    If he hits woth CF+3 and since he got a max roll of 6 on FoA we will give him a max roll of 10 here.

    10+3+6=19 damage beats FoA with one, so on a max roll the CF comes out on top , but the damage on FoA is more stabile, but on top of that you have 33% chance targetr is slowed vs target must save vs spells or be stunned, so in the end the damage output is almost the same but I belive that the CF's special abilities puts it on top.
     
  7. Son of Bhaal Gems: 17/31
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    Flail of the ages everytime, not only can you get it very early on, the slow chance is extreemly useful too and @Boronius the upgrade makes it one of the best single handed weapons of the game.
     
  8. Advanced Simplicity Gems: 4/31
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    Well how early you get it is not relevant at all here. The slow chance is usefull I agree, but the Stun on CF is more usefull and occurs more frequently. Upgraded FoA is arguably more powerfull then non-upgraded CF but again not relevant.

    If we look at average damage CF+3 has 8 and FoA+3 has 9 (6+1+1+1), 1 damage more or less has little so say, and it could also be said that CF has higher core damage which is favorable when considering critical hits (where FoA's elemental damage will be added last thus not increasing the *2) But all in all let's say that FoA comes out on top here with 1 more damage then CF.

    Now let's look at abilities, what it boils down to is :
    -33% chance target is slowed (no save)
    -Target must make a save vs spells or be stunned

    Do you want you opponent moving slowly or not moving at all?

    1 More damage has nothing to say, the stun on CF is what makes it so powerfull and that's where it has the edge vs Flail of Ages.
     
  9. Son of Bhaal Gems: 17/31
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    IMO if you take into account that if the weapon has no effect its pointless, there are more monsters that are immune to slashing weapons than against bludgeoning/crushing/piercing, plus theres the added elemental damage that the CF doesnt cover. Whats the point of attcking a completly stunned enemy and having to waste spells on it?
     
  10. Wordplay Gems: 29/31
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    FoA is better, although that sun ability CF has is quite useful. FoA beats this with a) elemental damage that can distrupt spell-casting, b) golems aren't immune to its damage, and c) it can be upgraded later on.
     
  11. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    My recollection is that I've stunned monsters with CF even though they took no damage from it (i.e., clay golems). However, by midway through the game, anything that might prove a problem to you is pretty much saving 90% of the time anyway (negating the best part of CF), so the no save part of the slow effect makes a big difference.
     
  12. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I vote for FoA. It is far more useful. Yes, the base damage on CF is a little higher, but most damage a weapon will do is based on your stength bonus and how proficient you are in that weapon class. Even if you have to Items Upgrade Mod and modify CF to a +5 weapon, I'd still take the upgraded FoA (first to +4 and eventually to +5) over the upgraded CF any day.
     
  13. Blog Gems: 23/31
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    The elemental damage of the Flail of Ages hits through stone skin, and I find that extremely handy. Does the CF's stun ability go through stone skin too?
     
  14. Advanced Simplicity Gems: 4/31
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    Yes the stun goes through stone skin.

    And it works late game to, on the top of my head I remember beating Saladrex in Wathcers Keep with it. Get over 5 attacks pr round and you'll stun almost anything.

    I agree that FoA+5 is more powerfull then CF+3 or even Upgraded CF+5, but if you compare the +3 versions against each other I say FoA's elemental damage is nice but just doesn't stack up against CF's great abilities.
     
  15. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    At a 5% chance of stunning someone, five attacks per rounds sounds like a 25% chance of stunning someone in any given round, assuming you hit every time, and they fail the saving throw in each instance. Given that they don't fail the saving throw every time, I imagine the odds are considerably less.

    On the other hand, FoA gives you a 33% chance of slowing someone, and no saving throw is allowed. With 5 attacks per round with the FoA, you're almost guaranteed to get the slow effect. I'd also like to point out (again) that FoA hits everything in all of SoA except the demi-lich, including particularly annoying golems that some weapons can't touch, and most weapons don't do full damage against.
     
  16. Radish Gems: 1/31
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    flail of ages, without a doubt. as mentioned above, its ability to break through stoneskin is invaluable.
     
  17. Shrikant

    Shrikant Swords! Not words! Veteran

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    Celestial Fury is far more impressive to watch during SoA. That stun ability really comes in handy. It worked regularly even in Suldanessar.
    FoAs slow ability just doesnt light up the eyes like seeing Imoen and Aerie beat the pre-stunned bad guys with their daggers and staffs.

    However the FoA does elemental damage and that just decides it, really.
    Sure the stun ability goes through stone and golem skin but then there is little damage added, specially if they have immunity to the only damage type you have, slashing.

    So FoA will be a better bet in a power comparision.

    But I'd like to point out again.
    CF hauls FoA over the coals in being a wayyy cooler weapon. :thumb:
     
  18. Tassadar Gems: 23/31
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    One more thing: trolls. You don't want CF when you're up against those bad boys.
     
  19. NonSequitur Gems: 19/31
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    Flail of Ages, just for the spell-disrupting ability. You can't count on the stun against mages, but elemental damage will sneak through almost every time. Flails just aren't as cool as katanas, though.

    Of course, Celestial Fury is THE weapon of choice for most situations; slow has nothing on stun, it doesn't stack, and a high-level fighter-mage with CF throwing out Greater Malisons will mince almost anything (especially with Time Stop and GWW). Plus it just looks funky and you have to work hard to get it (well, with Tactics, at least).
     
  20. knightlight Gems: 3/31
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    Dual-wield and use them BOTH. Mwahahaha!
     
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