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Political YouTube Clips Thread

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by The Great Snook, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    The problem with that is we are turning into a society where 50 percent of the people work for a living and the other 50 percent vote for living. It isn't a sustainable way to be.
     
  2. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Did it actually get any worse under Obama, or did it just not get any better?
     
  3. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
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    Well, I imagine it did get somewhat worse due to the economy tanking in the first year or so. Whether Obama could have done anything to help that, and whether McCain would have done any better, are simply theoretical questions.
     
  4. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    To be fair, the worst year of the economy was 2009, and while that was Obama's first year in office, the economy really went into the tank in the fall of 2008. It wasn't Obama's policies that caused the economy to go into the toilet. So from the relative standpoint of when Obama got elected to now, the economy IS in better shape. I will concede that it is open for debate if it would have improved more or less had McCain been in office.

    Snook,

    Why do you think these people will like Obama because of this? It was a scam. The pre-paid debit cards all these people received had no money on them!
     
  5. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I think his point is that they actually thought Obama would just give them all $1000 if they stood in line to get it.

    Let alone that they are all stupid enough to think some hole-in-the-wall business would be the place for something like that to happen.
     
  6. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    BTA gets it. This has nothing to do with the economy (good or bad). This has to do with the culture that the government is there to just give people things. There is an entire segment of our population that overwhelmingly votes for one party for the sole purpose of getting things.
     
  7. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    You mean continuation of tax breaks for the rich? :hahaerr:
     
  8. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    Funny, I see a difference between someone giving you something you didn't earn and trying to prevent someone from taking something you did earn.
     
  9. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Sure, there's a difference. My point was the irony of your comment because it could just as well apply to wealthy conservatives voting for the GOP because they know that their agenda will be to make certain that the rich get richer with as little obstruction from the state as possible. Everyone has an angle, i.e. everyone expects some sort of monetary benefit from whoever they vote into power. Especially in the US, where it's impossible for anyone to become, say, president unless they have a backing in bags of millions of dollars... And most of those millions come from wealthy individuals, interest groups or corporations who will come around to collect at some point after the candidate that they so selflessly helped along comes into power. That's the way the game is played.
     
    damedog likes this.
  10. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    That's not entirely true. Certainly, the GOP is pro-big business, and many wealthy individuals support the party because of it. The problem with this line of thinking is that the top 5% of earners in the nation are just that - 5% of the population, and not nearly large enough of a group to swing an election unless the election was going to be very close anyway. The much larger group of avid GOP supporters are evangelical Christians - supporting the party's platform on social issues. And there are more than enough of them to swing an election - they are nearly 40% of the population in the US. In doing so, many of them are actually voting against their own financial self-interest.
     
  11. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    But a large part of the social issues boils down to many (the majority?) of the conservatives viewing the Dems as communist-socialists who want to give THEIR money in forms of various kinds of support to the more needy than themselves. They don't consider a low-level redistribution of tax money in forms of say unemployment benefits as a basic foundation of a functioning society (because everyone could be employed today and jobless tomorrow, including themselves), but as literally stealing their own hard-earned cash to give to lazy bums who don't want to work. So the crux of the issue is $$$ again. One side expects to get money, the other one expects to lose less money on what they consider to be handouts to the lazy due to elimination or cutting down on various forms of social support. But essentially they're both expecting to profit from their political choices, one just does so directly and the other indirectly. And this goes down to the purely personal level with conservatives (far beyond those richest 5% only), not just as relating to big business. And yes, I'm grossly generalizing here for the sake of debate.
     
  12. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    That's not what I meant at all in terms of social issues - and I thought referencing evangelical Christians would have made it obvious. I'm specifically talking about things like abortion, gay marriage, et al. Things that will drive these people to the polls and will cause them to vote against their economic self-interest along faith-based lines.

    There are far more people in the US like this than you'd think. My mother-in-law isn't even evangelical - she's Catholic, but in any political decision, regardless of where the candidates stand on any or all issues, if one is pro-life, and the other is pro-choice, she will vote for the pro-life candidate, even if she likes the pro-choice candidate better in every other way, and she will do this without exception.

    Granted, there are pro-choice politicians in the GOP, but they are in the minority. Likewise, there are some pro-life politicians that are Democrats, but they are also in the minority. So it's safe to assume that when you run across a politician that is pro-life, he is almost certainly a Republican. Same with gay marriage. Thus, when someone votes on the basis of these type of social issues they are voting for the Republican. And when that is their number one priority in deciding on who to vote for (i.e., they are one issue voters), they will vote for the Republican against their self-interest.
     
  13. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    I disagree. I think Democrats like to think that Republican's are unthinking automatons who vote as their priests and ministers tell them to. While I'm sure there are some, I think the vast majority of them are conservative in nature and vote for economic conservatism. As Bill Clinton said "It is the economy, stupid"
     
  14. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I know you didn't mean that, but oddly enough, even with abortions the issue of "they're not using MY MONEY to kill babies" comes up. Same as with various other Republican boycotts ala "sure, you're welcome to your opinion/position... I'll just make sure that you don't ever get a cent from me or any other conservative!". It's a kind of recurring theme.

    I'd really like to see some numbers concerning one-issue voters though. I just can't believe that more than a few percent of people would vote for the other side purely on the basis of a single issue.
     
  15. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Tal, I think you overestimate that amount of thinking the average voter is capable of. I think most voters are single issue voters. I think most people vote for the candidate who stands for the same thing that the individual voter believes in most, at that time. Personally, I will be voting for the guy who I think can get us back on track financially. I could care less about their stance on abortion or religion or immigration(though I do think their stance on such issues can help them gain support that could help them achieve any political goal.).
     
  16. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    My point exactly. I think one of the reasons that Snook has a different opinion is based largely on his geographic location. He lives in one of the most liberal (and well educated) states in the nation, and any Republican that wants to get elected has to, simply out of pragmatism, run as a moderate. Running in Massachusetts looking for one issue voters isn't going to get you very far, as compared to say, Kansas. (Not that I have anything against Kansas specifically - I think the same applies for most of the Great Plains states.)

    Well, how about a liberal example then? Snook will love me for this one: 95% of African Americans voted for Obama. If you think it's just because Obama is the same race, it's not. Even when the Democratic candidate is white, he still gets about 90% of the vote.
     
  17. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    Once again I have to disagree. Here in MA the vast majority of voters are single issue voters. If they are a Democrat that is good enough for them. The Republican's that win here, do so not by being a moderate (although they tend to be), but by showing how looney and far left the Democrat is.

    As to your edit, you are correct, blacks vote the way they are told to. Most Jews are the same way. I have relatives that don't even have to know who is running, they will vote straight D. I'm very curious if this election will be the first time that the Jews may actually go R as many Jews do not feel that Obama has been a friend to Israel (actually many feel he has been an enemy).
     
  18. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Followed by:

    So when a Democrat votes for a Democrat they are single issue voters, but when a Republican votes for a Republican, they are holding on to the Republican ideals of economic conservatism. :rolleyes:

    Wow. You've really opened up my eyes here Snook. I can't believe I never noticed this before. Is the world so black and white to you?
     
  19. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    No, you are taking two quotes out of context and giving them meaning that isn't correct.

    In the first quote I was talking about how I believe the majority of Republicans vote for economic policies first and then social policies second. I also mentioned how I don't believe the power of the Evangelacals is as strong as people would lead you to believe.

    In the second quote I was commenting on how in MA which is is one of the most liberal and Democrat states for many people being Democrat is the only qualification the candidate needs.

    I never said that any Dems are single issue voters (although I'm sure many of them are), I just said that many here are single party voters. I made no claim that there aren't many Republicans who do the exact same thing.
     
  20. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    No, actually you said exactly that in post #357:

    I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that statement - I believe it to be factually correct. But I am pointing out that if you are a Democrat, chances are you are going to vote for the Democratic candidate, and if you are Republican, chances are you are going to vote for the Republican candidate. If you didn't vote for one party nearly all the time, you probably wouldn't be a member of that party. Someone who actually votes for Republicans and Democrats probably registers as independent.

    I'm no exception to that rule. I always vote. Typically even in primaries, and I know I've never missed an opportunity to vote in a general election. That said, I can probably count the number of times I pulled a lever for a Republican candidate on my two hands and have a few fingers to spare. But I don't think there is anything unique to this type of voting, and I think you see it just about everywhere.

    I'm sure I can take everything you said about MA and apply to Republicans in any of the Great Plains states. Or, for an example as extreme as MA, we can go with Utah.
     
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