1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

PoE Expansion announced at E3

Discussion in 'Pillars of Eternity' started by Nakia, Jun 18, 2015.

  1. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    135
    Gender:
    Female
    Patch 2.0 beta is now live on Steam for any who wish to participate. Things are moving forward.
     
  2. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    4,092
    Likes Received:
    201
    Gender:
    Male
    Not sure I like the updates. Chanter was already behind the rest of the classes, now their hosed.

    Perception change I have to test. Looks like a plus for the Rogue. Makes the Fighter more of DPS, less of a tank. Weakens the the Pally tanking ability. Not sure how it affects Monks.
     
    Nakia likes this.
  3. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    135
    Gender:
    Female
    I am not doing the beta so I am interested in your reactions. I could be wrong but I feel that this constant trying to rebalance the game is a mistake. Fixing bugs is one thing but when it comes to rebalancing I think there is too much chance of actually unbalancing things. The only things I really wanted where the party AI script and perhaps some rebalancing of the enemy script.

    It seems wiser to me to make major changes when they start working on the sequel. BG I II had differences. I have stopped playing for the moment waiting to see what happens.

    Please post what you learn and your opinion.
     
    Blades of Vanatar likes this.
  4. Keneth Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire


    ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    198
    Gender:
    Male
    I strongly disagree with that point. The only way to truly balance a complex system, such those of most RPGs, and to ensure that all classes have enough flavor, is through having the playerbase actually play the game. IE games had the advantage (or the misfortune) of using a pre-existing system (AD&D), so they mostly just had to worry about its implementation. PoE's system is brand new (although hardly original), so they're aiming to make the game experience enjoyable for every player by considering the feedback of the players, since we are after all an integral part of the project development.

    They can't just say, "Hey, sorry guys. PoE sucks, but we'll totally make a better sequel." Without a publisher, we're the ones funding their endeavors, and they need to keep us happy. They also need to perfect the formula, so that they don't keep making the same mistakes. It's a lot like an MMO really: You want people to keep playing and supporting you and you do that by continually improving the game, at least up to the point where a newer product takes priority and you're confident that the new product will meet the standards of the consumers.

    tl;dr: rebalancing is a good thing
     
  5. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    135
    Gender:
    Female
    :lol: I disagree with you, Keneth, first there is no way they can make 100% of us happy 100% of the time. PoE does not suck, it is playable, stable and a lot of fun. Every-time a program is added or changed there is the risk of bugs. All the Skyrim patches proved that to me. No game is perfect, we players come in too many flavors for that to be possible. What is perfect for me will not be perfect for someone else. Perfection is an ideal but how can you make everyone happy? You can't you can only end up making people unhappy if you try to please everyone.

    Do you know the fable of the farmer, his son and their donkey?
    If you try to please everyone you will end up lossing your ass
     
  6. Keneth Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire


    ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    198
    Gender:
    Male
    I haven't said anything about making every single person happy; We all have different likes and expectations. But they do have to please the majority and deliver on their promises to the best of their ability. Obviously, my post was an exaggeration. The game is fine as it is, I gave it a fairly generous rating myself, but there is massive room for improvement and it's wrong not to try and do so simply because you run the risk of introducing new issues. It's next to impossible to get rid of all the bugs in software of this magnitude anyway. Even by fixing existing bugs, there's always a chance you'll create new ones, so there's no point in worrying about it.

    The simple fact is, a lot of the players are still not happy with the state of the game, and neither are the developers for that matter, so they need to keep working on it and balance is absolutely a major point of contention, as it is in all class-based games.
     
  7. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    135
    Gender:
    Female
  8. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    4,092
    Likes Received:
    201
    Gender:
    Male
    The game was fine. If you read the PoE official forums most players weren't asking for the Chanter changes. Nor the Perception update. They didn't please the majority.

    I prefer not to buy a beta. That is what the industry does these days. It's a shame and definitely drives me to hobbies. Complete the game before releasing it. Minor updates and patches aside of course. But they should be minimal. I prefer they spend the majority of their time creating more content. Hell, they'll make more money with more sales.
     
    Nakia likes this.
  9. Keneth Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire


    ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    198
    Gender:
    Male
    Balance changes will always breed discontent, especially when it's nerfs. Doesn't mean they aren't needed or wanted. Doesn't mean they are good either, but you'll never get anywhere if you don't do anything. That's why each patch goes through its own beta testing first, to see how the changes are received. The dissenters are usually just a vocal minority.

    And like I said, there's no way to release a "completed" game with a system that complex without extensive testing by a large group over time. Ideally, that group is the playerbase itself. It is simply not a feasible goal to achieve this prior to release (not on the kind of budget and time they had anyway) and it's stupid not to improve on the game afterwards if you have the opportunity.

    This rubs some people the wrong way, but it's not the industry standards degrading, it's just the process adapting itself to the realities of modern game design.
     
  10. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    135
    Gender:
    Female
    I agree with Blades of Vanatar. Not just PoE but many games these days feel more like betas than final releases. The developers fulfilled the promises to the Backers. Sure players can post suggestions about things they don't like or ways they think the game could be improved but when it comes to things like balancing of the classes the devs should be experts at that. That is their job and they have a quality control team that should be expert enough to see if a class is out of balance. If I pay someone to clean my house I expect to have a clean house when they finish not dirt swept under the rugs.

    People including me will always have complaints and suggestions. We will always disagree too that is what discussions are for.

    Edit: I can see some things being added or changed but as Blades has said it should be minimal. Most players don't even post at least not in the official forums. People come to the forum for information, to complain, to get help or to discuss the game and find out what others have done, how they have handled something.

    Edit 2: I am seeing more and more people post that they don't want to buy games until they have been out a while. I feel that way. This means games are losing sales and probably from the more serious players. Some people like beta testing fine put the game out for beta testing then and let people decide if they wish to participate.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  11. Keneth Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire


    ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    198
    Gender:
    Male
    Comparing the designing of an RPG system to house cleaning is a pretty poor analogy, don't you think? It took the designers of D&D over 30 years to get to any semblance of class balance. I've been doing it for many years now and I hardly ever get it right on the first try, even though it looks fine to me when I design it and run simulations. It takes time to test and iterate and a bunch of people to tell you where you've gone wrong.

    So no, the changes can't be minimal. It's not doable unless you dumb everything down to console-level and spend a small fortune for in-house testing.
     
  12. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    135
    Gender:
    Female
    House cleaning is not simple that is why there are professional house cleaners.

    We could argue about this for ever and not come to any agreement. As I understand it you are saying players should pay to be beta testers. I agree nothing to do with computers is simple and it will only get more complicated as we advance. Games are a business and the consumer has the right to expect the game they purchase to be in good condition to start just as they expect a car they purchase to be complete. Sure things go wrong and have to be fixed but we hold manufacturers responsible when they mess up why not game developers and/or publishers of games?
     
  13. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    135
    Gender:
    Female
    We now know the release dae for Part 1, August 25. The 2.0 patch is beta on Steam. One of the devs, I think it was Brandon Adler, said the official patch will be released a few days before the expansion.

    The cost of the two part expansion is 14.95 USD for each part if you purchase them separately or you have the option of purchasing both parts when you purchase part 1.

    I saw a report that Part 2 will not be released until March of 2016. Oh well, I have the Mount and Blade bundle to play with. I am now an armchair student of HEMA combat and M&B is passing marks for being fairly accurate at least in melee fighting. At the rate I am learning the game it will be March of next year so no problem. Actually I am pretty good at foot fighting it is the horse controls I am having trouble with.
     
  14. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    4,092
    Likes Received:
    201
    Gender:
    Male
    So.... I backed PoE via SP. I have no idea on what I donated. How can we check? I dont want to buy the expansion if i have a free copy coming or want to know if i qualify for a discounted version.
     
  15. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    135
    Gender:
    Female
    You will have to ask Tal that question. I do not recall at what tier the Expansion was included as a stretch goal. If I combined my donation to Kickstarter with what I donated to SP I think I would be in a fairly high tier. :) Could have gotten all kinds of goodies. You could also ask at the official forum but you would need to know how much you donated via SP I imagine. Tal must have a record of that.
     
  16. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,150
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    503
    Gender:
    Male
    Our donation drive's rewards only covered the original game and not the expansions, so you'll need to buy any subsequent expansion packs separately, @Blades of Vanatar . Basically, what you get is what's available to you via the redeem code you originally received. Remember, we basically got the game keys as an extra thank-you from Obsidian, the majority of the money went towards the inclusion of an SP item. Not that I think we got our money's worth with that, but eh, what can you do...
     
  17. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    135
    Gender:
    Female


    Here is a link to a video where one of the new companions is discussed.
     
    Blades of Vanatar and Marceror like this.
  18. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    4,092
    Likes Received:
    201
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks for the feedback Tal.

    Like the video Nakia.
     
  19. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    135
    Gender:
    Female
    The White March Expansion Part 1 has been released.
    http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/81287-update-100-the-white-march-part-i/

    If you need a key instructions will be found on a thread in the same forum. Also the minature space pig has been included in the Expansion so if you haven't got the pig rush to buy the expansion. :D

    Somehow that pig just doesn't replace Boo. Good try Obsidian it might have worked if Eder and others commented about it.
     
  20. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,770
    Media:
    226
    Likes Received:
    234
    Gender:
    Male
    Boo was never the one who made Boo special. It was Minsc.

    So a Boo throwback really doesn't have much of an impact without a Minsc next to him.
     
    Blades of Vanatar and Nakia like this.
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.