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Other good AD&D CRPGs?

Discussion in 'Playground' started by gibberishh, Feb 25, 2023.

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  1. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Gladiators get -1 AC. Thats it…. but you can Dual Class them. Not really relevant unless you plan on setting up a nice Dualled character for Wake of the Ravager. But a Half Giant Gladiator is a Beast! Since they only get max 15 dex, their AC sucks, so every little bit helps. Thri-Kreen Gladiator has a really nice starting AC…..

    Synoptic Static is a must for a Psionicist. Make one character has Psionicist as a class. You’ll regret it mid game otherwise….

    One single classed Half-Giant warrior with a wealth of HP is deadly late game with a particular magical weapon.

    The whole base stat cap of 20 instead of traditional 18 is due to the extremely harsh environment Athas. Only the strong survive.

    I would also recommend all multi-class characters have a warrior class. Doing so makes Haste your best spell.

    Equip bows on everyone who can use them. Dual weapons in melee for all.

    Web and Entangle are extremely useful in the Arena.
     
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  2. SlickRCBD Gems: 29/31
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    I recall having to manually activate mind blank each fight for it to work.

    On the subject of the arena, don't waste your precious arrows in it. Unlike Baldur's Gate where you get more arrows than you know what to do with, they are more rare in this game and money is tight if you don't grind the Arena. Use the slings which have unlimited ammo. You can swap weapons any time, so there is no reason not to keep the bows and the slings.
    The slings don't do much damage, but if you web or entangle foes, they will do some damage and it lets your back rank preserver/psionicist contribute at low levels when not casting spells.
    The bows are definitely worth it for the tougher battles outside the arena, but the Arena is the intro area, save your resources.
    I agree, add ranger (preferred) or fighter to your multiclass characters. The XP hit isn't that bad if you take a bit of time to grind two level-ups for each class of a triple-class character in the Arena before starting the game proper. You start out weaker because your characters aren't at level 1, but if you grind the triple-class characters up to the level of a starting single-class character (and the single-class will get a level up in the Arena) you won't notice the hit.

    I know, grinding in the Arena is boring, but it's the only place you can get unlimited gold so it pays off a bit if you take triple-classed characters.
    On the other hand, as indicated, having a half-giant gladiator or a fighter/psionicist can be deadly.

    I'd recommend taking a half-giant and a thri-keen, plus two others to cover a preserver and a cleric or druid. Muticlassing is a must as you need a psionicist, cleric or druid (preferably both), a preserver, AND a thief, plus you should mix in fighter classes when possible as preservers and thieves are really weak.
    For a first time player, I'd recommend trying to multiclass to cover all the classes, make the half-giant a metabolic gladiator, and the other two non-psionicists cover the telepathy and ballistic psionics. Also if you take a cleric and a druid, don't make them the same element. Thri-keen are the best for the psionicist.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2023
  3. gibberishh Gems: 14/31
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    This is the party I'm learning with:
    Half-Giant ... Neutral Good ... Fighter/Psionicist
    Half-Elf ... Neutral Good ... Fighter/Preserver/Cleric (Earth)
    Elf ... Neutral Good ... Fighter/Thief/Preserver
    Half-Elf ... True Neutral ... Fighter/Psionicist/Druid (Fire)

    So far so good. I've survived a lot of fights in the arena and am already up to level 3 in most classes. Got all of them dual-wielding. Found some decent gear in the pens too but not found a bow yet. Found three types of arrows though. I'm searching through all dead bodies, haystacks, wardrobes. Got access to the west side of the pens.

    Until now all my fights have been computer controlled and I have zero idea what is going on. Looks like the computer doesn't like to cast any spells and just jumps into melee all the time. My next big thing is to figure out how manual combat works because frankly it looks very complicated. I'm half on the verge of giving up on the game entirely if I can't figure this out. Superficially it looks like a version of HoMM (movement paces and melee/ranged attack, possibly with some spellcasting thrown in, an option to Wait).

    At the very least, I'm not leaving the arena until I figure out combat -- or I give up. This game is unkind to point-n-clickers like me.

    Oh yes, I did turn off auto-combat after the first fight. It looked to me like I won the manual fight. Gold was showered on me. About half an hour later I found out that two of my party were dead! When I went to rearrange inventory and saw the word Dead printed below their names :confused: Fortunately I had a save from before.
     
  4. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Half Giant has weak mental stats. Multi classing him will significantly lower your HPs. Mixing in a class to be able to increase his AC lowers hp and makes you waste rounds using Psionic powers/casting spells when he could be hitting the enemy 4x a round. For huge damage. So if you do multiclass your big boy make sure you choose powers/spells that can be used to buff pre-combat. I like psionicist as the mix-in class if you are going that route.

    Was Mul or Dwarf an option for F/P/D?
     
  5. gibberishh Gems: 14/31
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    Oh okay. Will have to look into that.

    Dwarves cannot be druids. Muls can, but it's not allowing me F/P/D combination (tried playing around with stats to be sure). Only Half-Elf and Thri-Kreen are letting me choose all three together.
     
  6. SlickRCBD Gems: 29/31
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    Muls can be Fighter/Druid/thief, fighter/cleric/thief, or Fighter/Psi/Thief, but no other triples.
    Dwarves can be F/C/Psi, but not druids.
    As for the half-giant, if you are going fighter/psi, I see no down side to going ranger/psi instead. If you put the ranger in heavy armor he acts exactly like a fighter, if you use medium or light armor he gets some bonus abilities.
    The down side comes from the psi, reducing the HP by averaging the two classes.
    If you go single class, a gladiator might be a better choice for the AC, but a ranger works too.
     
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  7. gibberishh Gems: 14/31
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    I have no established game style yet. I'm very particular about how I play familiar (infinity engine) games but this is totally different. I'm not going to restart my game for now because I still have stuff to figure out. But if I do stick with it, go ahead and send me your suggestion for a full party (@Blades of Vanatar, @SlickRCBD).

    Remember that I'm totally new to this so please mention everything: Race, Classes, Alignment, Circles, Gender (if it matters). In case your suggested race doesn't allow some classes I'll obv pick another on my own. This may be asking too much but if you wish to specify a leveling path for any character, awesome (i.e., which spells to learn).

    Maybe I'll start a new game before leaving the arena. At this point I do not want more challenging encounters than the game inherently presents (a-la HoF mode). That time may come after I've established my preferred game style. On my first run I just want to be able to get through to the end.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2023
  8. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I don't want to spoil, but trust me, having a single classed warrior Half-Giant in the late game is awesome.

    My preferred party

    Half Giant Gladiator
    Half-Elf Ranger/Cleric/Preserver (Water)
    Thri-Kreen Fighter/Druid (Earth)
    Dwarf Fighter/Psioncist/Thief (backstab rocks!)

    Early game use fists for the Thri-Kreen so he gets 4 punches and a bite. Dual Weapons for everyone else.

    You get a few moments after you see what you are fighting in the Arena, use those precious seconds to BUFF. Your first 3rd mage level spell should be Haste. Once casts in the arena you can win the battle, then give a rude answer to the announcer who will then send tougher monsters out for a 2nd fight. Haste will still be activated.

    Grind the Arena for levels. If facing the preserver plus the big tough monsters, kill the preserver first and try to front the bigs with your Hasted Half-Giant as your others disable them.

    When facing many missle enemies, Wall of Fog is your friend.
     
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  9. gibberishh Gems: 14/31
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    Thanks. I'm all for spoilers. Go ahead, spoil me :D ;)

    Your first three characters: what Psi circles should I give them? And yes, I agree on the backstab. It's my fav way to take down enemies in any game. https://sorcerers.net/community/threads/where-i-got-shredded-a-chronicle.92582/

    Also, you've given me 2 fighter multiclasses. But if what Slick said is correct, there is absolutely no difference between fighters and rangers in heavy armor? And it's better to pick rangers for the light armor dual-wielding advantage? In fact, would the Thri-Kreen benefit more from the Ranger class because she can not wear humanoid armor? Or is there some other reason you've chosen fighters?

    Does alignment matter? You haven't mentioned any.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2023
  10. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    You must multi Fighter with Druid due to the Druid TN Class Alignment Restriction. Rangers cannot multi-class with Druids. So the Thri-kreen is a Fighter.

    Dwarves cannot be Rangers, so the F/P/T is a Fighter. I choose Dwarf because Psi and Thief bring down the avg HPs. So a Dwarf’s super high Con helps balance that. You could choose Elf, Half-Elf or Halfling, any will work. Though Halflings have low Str, but that is easily buffed by either your Preserver or by his own Psi abilities.

    Rangers level up slower than Fighters so they are not the same. Though Rangers, when mixed with Cleric, give the Cleric more spell options, so those classes go well together. Either do the job, just depends on how you want to mix other classes with them.

    I like Metabolism as the Psioinc option for the non-Psionicists.

    Alignment only matters when picking what classes go together in a multi-class combo. Druids can only choose TN, Rangers can only be good.
     
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  11. gibberishh Gems: 14/31
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    Okay. Didn't think of those restrictions. My bad.

    Just spent the last hour with Cheat Engine to see if I could change my existing party into the one you suggested. I'm able to change everything -- give everyone insane stats irrespective of class (25 everything + 100HP + 100Psi), change the race, APR, movement steps, current xp, alignment -- everything except the one thing I want to change, which is classes. Grrrr.

    I know the format the classes are stored in but I can't pinpoint exactly where they are stored. Looks like I will restart a new game after all.
     
  12. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Right, so now go enjoy DS Shattered Lands for all it’s Classic-ness!
     
  13. gibberishh Gems: 14/31
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    Just FYI, using my cheats table, I'm also able to create Neutral Evil and Lawful Evil characters ;) Not gonna do that but it's nice to know that it's available.

    Before restarting my game, I'm taking some time off to learn from here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpxuazQ7SB4zN_UkoKF3UuLlmCGs3nBT6

    If he doesn't explain stuff clearly enough, there's other videos. My priority is learning so that I can establish my game style. Btw, I'm not very appreciative of the party he's going with. I watching to learn the mechanics only. I like your party better, at least for a first-timer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2023
  14. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    That's a very detailed dissection of some mechanics. Nobody on that thread seems to have figured out if Ranger/Cleric gets access to all the cosmos spells that a druid does. That would've been nice to know.

    Also, I'm guessing the ranger part of a Ranger/Cleric doesn't get to choose their own sphere? The combined entity gets one elemental sphere?

    Finally, I have no issues with grinding. I'm more than happy to fight fight fight in the arena and abuse the announcer till the cows come home. Should I dual- or double-dual-class any of your recommended combos as human? E.g., is a human R8/C8/Preserver* better than a half-elf? He'd have access to two elemental spheres? Is that any advantage? Coz most of the useful spells I see in the manual are Cosmos ones.
    *That'd be a hell of a lot of grinding but any other suggestions are welcome too.

    I just checked, my game is 1.0. Now I'm terrified about this end-game bug that everyone (including my walkthrough) keeps talking about. Just downloaded a patch, fingers crossed it works.

    Edit: Got 1.10 now. Some players say the bug can surface in this too, others say they had a smooth ride. I'm going to be very frustrated if I can't finish the game. Pray for me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2023
  16. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    The problem with triple Dual Class is that it all comes together in the late game. The character is limited most of the game. Which is fine if you are planning to bring the party into Wake of the Ravager where it will really shine. Not really necessary for just a Shattered Lands run.
     
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  17. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    If you grind a ton to make it work earlier, then the end game is a borefest.
     
  18. SlickRCBD Gems: 29/31
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    The only grinding I tend to do is at the beginning to get some starting gold and to get my triple classed characters to levels 4/4/4. Otherwise I find they die too easily.
    I don't need to grind for a single-classed half-giant gladiator, who seems more powerful in the arena than 3 triple-classed combo of (pick 3) elf, dwarf, mul, halfling, or half-elf combined in the very beginning until they get to at least three levels in each class.
    Thri-Keen tends to be quite potent fighters as well in melee. Not as tough as a half-giant, but able to dish out nearly as much punishment. Triple class them and include a fighter or ranger class and they are your second front-liner.
    I can't praise the half-giant enough however.

    Edit:I want to clarify, I meant that a half-giant gladiator seems more powerful than 3 triple-classed characters from more normal AD&D races combined, regardless of if they are made of clerics, fighters, rangers, druids, psionicists, thieves, or preservers (pick 3, usually including fighter or ranger as one of the three). This is ONLY at the very start of the game, and the triple-classed characters catch up once they gain two levels for each class. It's just them starting at lower levels that causes this.
    A human gladiator (or any other race) also seems more powerful at first, but not nearly as noticeable. The half-giant has bonus strength and con that really makes them good fighters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2023
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  19. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Yes, when you dual from Ranger to Cleric you get an extra domain.
     
  20. gibberishh Gems: 14/31
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    Much thanks to all. I'll go with your original party. It sounds promising. If I find that I'm really missing out on stuff (probably won't), I've got my cheat table* to edit everything but classes. I can give them spells and psionics (and extra spell slots) from any school irrespective of class and sphere. Better than the built-in Alt+F4 cheat which restricts psionics to your original circle. I can also godmode everyone if need be.

    Of course, this will be an absolute last resort. I've read a few discussions about how difficult the game (or some mobs) can be and as I have repeated, my only objective on my first run is to get through to the end. Finesse will come later. Getting used to different creatures' immunities and abilities will take a lot of time -- the bestiary is bloody huge.

    *I'll publish the table to a public forum after I'm convinced it's as comprehensive as it can be.
     
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