Obama Calls West "A Jackass"

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My adult male students like her a lot, because she is quite attractive. Her music isn't exactly great poetry, but it isn't bad, either, and her voice is pleasant enough.

She certainly didn't deserve what that loser West did. People say I'm projecting and all, but I still believe that the possibility exists that is was racially fuelled.

I read that Miley Cyrus weighed in and said that West's apologies were not sincere. Not that I usuually give great credence to her thoughts on life, but I agree with her in this case. I don't hear much true remorse in West's words, any more than I heard it from Mel Gibson after his filthy racist outburst. I just see a douchebag going through the motions.

 

I listen to some modern commercial music, but not American "corporate" music. I also picked up some new Hed Kandi stuff for 2009, which is still OK, but I figure is corporate music in the UK.

BTW, I liked the Kandi much better when Mark Doyle was mixing it, but some of it's still OK....

I just found out last week, that she and Hanna Montana are the same person.

 

I agree with Cyrus too that it was likely an insincere apology, but I don't know that she had any reason to weigh in. It had nothing to do with her. Still, I don't think he would have apologized had his actions not garnered such a negative response. He's that arrogant.

Also, comparing this to what happened with Mel Gibson is way off the mark. The things Gibson said were definitely bigoted. He specifically brought up the Jews and his beliefs about them, topping them off with several sexually-degrading comments to his female arresting officer. Kanye didn't say anything about Swift's race, or even indicate that his comments had anything to do with her race. He didn't even say anything bad about Swift at all, in fact - just that he thought Beyonce's effort was "the best of the year." Not excusing his gross rudeness, but that's what happened, and I see no need to insert things that weren't present.

That is why I believe you are projecting.

 

As I said before, if the situation were polarized, even had the offending white fellow not mentioned race either, race would certainly have come into the discussion, and he would have been pilloried.

Drew mentioned that West is a racist, so to apply the same standards to him as we would to a white guy with such a reputation is, IMHO, not really that far of a stretch.

I guess what I'm really saying is that I don't expect you to buy that it for sure had a racial component. But I am asking you to consider the possibility that it had one.

 

Well, that's Drew's opinion, and not one that I share. I think there is a perception out there that West is a racist because of his "George Bush doesn't care about black people" comment. Others have seen what they believe to be racist comments in the lyrics of his songs. I personally don't believe they are. He has collaborated with white artists before, and has certainly praised white artists before. He's made some racially-insensitive remarks before too, but I chalk that up to his tendency to shoot his mouth off before thinking. In short, he's not known for being a racist the way that, say, Jesse Helms was. But you were claiming he was a racist before Drew even mentioned that he was, so what Drew said really has no bearing on your initial impression.

I did, of course, consider the possibility that West's comments could have been racially motivated. It's important to consider such things in a situation like that. But I came away pretty early on with the fact that West is an ass, prone to making an ass of himself, is unbelievably pretentious (meaning he has an unnaturally high opinion of himself, his talent, and his own "artist's eye") and that he should be criticized on that basis, since his remarks didn't mention Swift's race at all. If West had said something along the lines of "you pretty good, fo a white girl" your case would be a lot more compelling.

 

LKD - If you extend this outside of politics, I have to believe that DR is agreeing with your premise in the above statement, while at the same time with the notion that the guy is a "jackass" for doing it the way in which he chose.

I have to say I find it somewhat discordant that you are willing to give people carrying signs of Obama pictured as Curious George the monkey or similar animal, the benefit of a doubt, while jumping on this awards business as being "racist" in nature with far less evidence. But I may be misunderstanding you somewhere between these two threads.

 

Who are you quoting? The search function isn't turning up 'lexicon' or 'good faith' on either page of this thread. Maybe a post has been edited?

Anyway, I have a serious problem with the view that 'racist' is "Among the ugliest words in the English language'. It's a view I frequently encounter on the internet, and I pretty much hate it. Y'know what's worse than being called a racist? Actually being a racist. Y'know what 'racist' and 'racism' are? Descriptors. Not ****ing* smears.

*I said I pretty much hate it, didn't I?

 

I am quoting LKD on the "Carter and Racism" thread. He set that comment off by itself, and I thought it was a good point, even though I think a lot of what's going on is still steeped in racsim. The problem I have with it, in a larger sense, is that if you want to complain about being called a "racist," then don't go calling the subject of your rants a racist as well. Every sign that these people carry that calls Obama "Hitler" is implying that Obama is one. What is one of Hitler's most despised traits? racism?

These people are trying to derail Obama's policies by "knowing" that he is a "racist." Yet when they are called the same thing in return, they cry FOUL. How many times have we seen THAT from these same people? I wanted to add that I don't mean my friend, LKD, as "these people." I wanted to be clear that I was referring to the protestors.

 

I don't think Obama is a racist. I do think some of his followers are.

The Curious George thing was a long time ago, but the gist of my argument then and still is that the caricature had been done to Bush to massive cheers from the left. When the exact same thing was done to Obama, the accusation went out. I know that Obama is black and therefore the monkey thing comes into play, but I figured that to simply polarize a parody done by the opposition is not in and of itself racism -- I thought the left was whining. Still do.

Anytime anyone criticizes a black, he is instantly tried and convicted in the court of left wing opinion. Anyone who defends him is also slapped with the label.

So I used the same standard of judgement on West. Maybe I was wrong, but he should be held to the same standard as the whites by his liberal friends.

 

Not really, they were carrying them this last weekend at the DC protest.

Really? Seems to me, those "whiners" are pretty far right:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#32904814

To make a typical school bus fight, that has been going on for years, into a statement about "Obama's America" is some pretty serious "whining." And that whites are suddenly the "victims" of "Obama's America" is whining supreme.

Come on now, that is so lame. You know, just as well as I do, it's just like the argument about the Confederate flag: For white southerners, it's a symbol of pride, for blacks and those in the North it is a symbol of southern slavery and bigotry. If you put a picture of Robert E. Lee next the same flag, it makes a much different statement than putting Frederick Douglas next to it. It's the same thing with placing a black man with a picture of a monkey - saying that they are "inferior to whites." You know this....

Dude, I'm a liberal and I don't even know who the guy is....

 

"Jackass" is hardly the most insulting term ever used for someone. It sounds like the sort of thing you called your mate at the pub whilst laughing at him for falling off his chair.

And for the record, that Beyonce video is AWFUL. A candidate for worst video and song ever. Taylor Swift is a relative Mozart by comparison.

 

In my vocabulary 'jackass' is among the mildest of insults. Thinking of it, it is not even necessarily an insult.

 

The point I am trying to make is that there are a lot of people who are johny on the spot to paint whites with the label, and yet they are silent when one of their own does something just as vile. I believe in one standard for everyone. The gall of criticizing someone for something that you were proudly doing just a few months ago seems to me to be really wild.

 

...and unfortunately many of us whites are the same way.

 

I...don't think that's correct.

If you don't mind my asking (in an irreverant manner), was there some traumatic incident in your childhood where you were ostracized because some black kid you had a fight with said you called him a [slur] or something?

 

You are way off base, here. Have white peoply been universally characterized as primates by a majority that enjoys more rights and opportunities than they do in order to imply that they, as a group, are simple minded? Not only was that the case for African Americans, many of them still remember it, and the "black man = Ape" epithet is still used with intent to insult, demean, and offend African Americans. Calling a black man a monkey/ape/gorilla/primate was and still is a racial epithet. Calling a white man an Ape is not. Don't tell me you can't comprehend the difference.

So why hasn't anyone called me racist for calling Kanye a grade-A douchebag, a jackass of the highest order, and a ****ing moron? Why has no one called me racist for calling OJ Simpson a murdering Thug who's only redeeming qualities are found on the gridiron? Why has no one accused me of racism for calling Michael Vick a horrible human being with a sadistic streak who is utterly undeserving of the second chance he's been given? Why has no one called me racist for calling Jesse Jackson a hypocritical loudmouth who fails to comprehend the complexities of race relations?

 

Drew's a racist.

[Nice - - dmc]

 

I knew that was coming, but I figured T2 or Splunge would beat you to it. Good one, DR.

 

Oh, I comprehend the difference, all right. But I thought we were aiming for a colour blind society, where we all treat each other the same regardless of skin color. That's what I'm aiming for in an ideal world. It's just that my ideal world is significantly more brutal than that of many others.

For example, in a courthouse, 2 men go on trial in separate courtrooms for murders. The circumstances of each case are remarkably similar. Both men are convicted of first degree murder. One man is black, the other is white.

According to the opponents of the death penalty, the white guy is more likely to avoid the death penalty because of racial bias, $$ disparity, and other factors. They say that the only way to make it fair is to give neither man the death penalty. In my ideal world, the situation is made fair by executing both convicted felons.

I didn't have a tramautic experience, AMaster. To be honest, there's not many Black people around here. Any that I meet (and I do meet a lot for a Western Canadian since I teach immigrants) I give the same opportunity to prove themselves that I give to any white person I meet. I seriously don't give a rat's hind end about race. It's behaviour that pisses me off. As soon as they accuse me or mine of being racist in an attempt to circumnvent the law, I lose respect for them, just as I lose respect for lawbreakers of any stripe who play the poverty card. And that's the crux of my hatred for West and his ilk. They try to get away with bad behaviour by playing the victim card. The guy is a multi-millionaire. He's hardly a victim of racism.

 

Who wants that? I get your concept, but the fact remains that our present exists, as it always has, in the context of our past. This was not the invocation of some long-forgotten racial slur that has long since lost its sting, but one that even today is alive and well. Color blindness is a great ideal, but it will not happen until our children's children's children no longer remember racism. In other words? Never.

As a death penalty opponent myself, I'm compelled to ask where you heard that argument, because I never have. Death penalty opponents like me argue against the death penalty on several fronts -- the death penalty constitutes cruel and unusual punishment (personally, I don't agree with this); you can free someone who was wrongfully imprisoned but you can't un-kill someone who was wrongfully executed; while the death penalty does deter crime, there is no evidence that the death penalty deters more crime than life in prison without parole, so it serves no real benefit to society; because of the appeals process -- which cannot and will not be denied to any American facing execution -- capital punishment actually costs more than locking someone up. There are other arguments as well, but I have yet to hear anyone -- let alone a majority of death penalty opponents -- argue that the reason death penalty should be abolished is racial bias in sentencing.

Don't get me wrong, racial bias in both trial and sentencing within our judicial system is real, and stands as compelling evidence of the need to consider* more standardization as it pertains to sentencing and prosecution.

* I use the word "consider" for a very specific reason. We need some latitude where sentencing is concerned. Mitigating circumstances do exist and should be taken into account, and we would need to examine if/how such circumstances could be codified and make certain that, in trying to solve one problem, we don't create an even bigger one. Racial bias will never be completely removed from our judicial system, but great strides have already been made in reducing its influence. I'm not convinced there's much more we can do in this area without causing an even bigger problem than the one we're trying to fix.