NPC's that help complete the plot

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We must be playing different games then because Sarevok seems to have learned not to **** with anything while my PC is around. And just because someone did something before doesn't mean they will do it again. (Some people actually *learn* from their mistakes. )

 

That's kind of my point. Sarevok is a lot tamer when he goes with you than he would be elsewhere.

That's right. It'll be worse. It will be better planned, better executed, and a whole hell of a lot more dangerous. I believe the saying goes that "prison only teaches them to be better criminals".

 

You have no proof of that, Fel. You're basing your argument on Sarevok's past actions, which can be valid in some situations, but Sarevok is highly intelligent. Even if he is only acting for the benefit of the person(s) who murdered him, he is hiding it well and I don't think he's that great of an actor. As he says (to Viconia), "When Bhaal held sway over my soul, I reveled in the bloody carnage I wrought. But my will was not my own." In talking with Anomen, Sarevok states, "It is no act, cleric."

Of course, we're arguing over personal perceptions of the game. You seem to prefer judgement based on the past while I prefer judgement based on the present.

 

Just to be even more o/t, though - they don't learn much since they only congregate with other criminals that got caught. (The 'better criminals' get away with their crimes...)

But on the issue of Sarevok, the 'dragnet' summary you get at the end of ToB refers to him wandering off and acting a little like the "High Plains Drifter" - saving Berdusk from an invading humanoid army, then wiping out Westgate's rulership and taking over briefly before just up and leaving on a similar whim that spurred his conquest, etc.

Seems to me he simply acted (away from CHARNAME) in a chaotic neutral manner rather than good or evil; seeing as he starts CE, I'd say CHARNAME has an influence on him, even if not keeping an eye on the boy and persuading his change to CG... (and before you say he was an evil despot, c'mon - it's Westgate! The city was MADE for tinpot dictators! )

 

Just the fact that his entire outlook can be changed so radically in less than two weeks is ample proof of the PC's effect on Sarevok.

You forget the "highly intelligent" part rather quickly. It's not that he can't act, it's that he chooses not to almost all the time.

You may dismiss that as being only Bhaal's influence, but guess what? He's still CE. He still revels in the bloodshed and demands to be given something to kill if you stand around too long. And that's even with the PC's influence working on him!

Choose your quotes a little more carefully, m'lady. That's CG Sarevok you're talking about. Not even close to what would be released upon the Realms.

Not quite. I base my judgement on his acts to date (past), up to and including his speech at you at the beginning of ToB. Meanwhile, you're basing your judgement on an alternate future, which has almost no bearing on the future we're talking about. (For someone to base their judgement on the "present", we'd have to know exactly what it is he does.) Travelling with the PC has a profound effect on Sarevok, and you cannot compare any attitude during that time to what his attitude would have been if you had simply dismissed him after your first meeting in the Pocket Plane.

EDIT:
I think this is another case of the "cuddly" syndrome. You look at Korgan, and he's so ridiculously tame. Get past the insults, and he could be downright neutral. Same goes for Edwin and Viconia. Evil doesn't seem to mean the same thing for NPCs that it does for the rest of the characters in the game. Everyone who follows you suddenly becomes a *****cat, bowing to your wishes and being as good as you are. And then people form their opinions off of that.

It's complete bulls***. Remember that story Korgan tells about killing off his party members? That's what his evil is like. But he doesn't do anything even remotely close to that in-game. Despite his derision of Aerie's skills and his opinion that she's completely worthless (which he later revises in ToB, likely also partially due to the PC's influence), who is the only one who will chase her around trying to kill her? Anomen! The "CN" reject of the Order acts more evil than Korgan, for crying out loud!!!

And for all of Edwin's talk of plotting to overthrow you, what does he do? Nothing. (Unless you consider the Nether Scroll thing a plot to seduce you. ) And Viccy? What a joke. Not only does she never do anything evil (advising you how a drow would act isn't even necessarily telling you to act a certain way or else), but they actually allow you to turn her neutral!

Does that mean that deep down, these characters aren't evil? Of course not. But the effect of the PC cannot be denied. All three of these thoroughly evil PCs get pretty much neutralized (in more than one sense of the word) when they join with your group. The same thing happens to Sarevok, and if you ask me, he's the worst of them. Korgan + Deathbringer + intelligent = one serious danger to society.

EDIT2:
Hehe, it censored pu$$ycat.

[ June 09, 2006, 16:29: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

 

Looks like another circle argument here.

It's not the PC has to be with Sarevok all the time, which is what your point is coming across as. My point, since it isn't clear here, is Sarevok keeps his business clean knowing what the PC has done and can do again.

But again, this isn't about Sarevok's redemption or lack of. It's about NPCs necessary to complete BG2. There is only one and she is Imoen.

 

If you mean circular as in "consistent", then yeah. But anyway ... blackpotsayswhat? Really, neither of us can know exactly what he would do when left to his own devices, but I think my scenario is much more likely than your "he sits quietly in the corner" scenario (though you no doubt would think the opposite).

Missing the highly intelligent part again, are we? The PC has their own stuff to deal with; they're not going to be policing Sarevok and he knows it. Why would he feel at all hesitant to be as bad as he can be when he knows you've got bigger fish to fry?

True enough. My trying to 'correct' your 'misconception' does get slightly off-topic, but it still relates to whether or not you "should" take him, story-wise.

If we ask that question, the answer is "Noone." Anyone who's soloed can tell you that. No, I think the original question was "who helps complete the plot", or "which NPC's fit the storyline best". Now, noone in their right mind is going to argue that Imoen doesn't belong in that category, but surely others rank as having at least some connection with your story too? Like Yoshimo and his tale of *spoiler*. Or Minsc and Jaheira as fellow captives who have followed you even before this unfortunate event.

[ June 09, 2006, 22:45: Message edited by: Felinoid ]