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No First Amendment if They Ban You

Discussion in 'Game/SP News & Comments' started by chevalier, Oct 2, 2009.

  1. Thrasher91604

    Thrasher91604 For those who know ...

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    Development costs would be spread among all the other people in the same situation. As well for those than pay for profits.

    No, I never said only a right to life overrides a right to liberty. Please reread my post above. Are you paying attention?

    Most people would consider it an assault on themselves because it would be an assault on their home and their freedom to live in a clean house. Property can't be assaulted.
     
  2. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    No, but property can be violated. That includes corporations, as corporations are the property of somebody. They have as much right to control access to their offices, websites and services as you have to control access to your home.

    I am a freelance translator. That means I run a one-person company, and as such a (very small) corporation. That does NOT mean that you or anyone else has free access to my office (which doubles as my living room), or to my services except at the price I set. In fact, I have the right to turn down jobs due to lack of time, lack of confidence that the client can or will pay me, or for no other reason that I find the job boring or the material repulsive and would rather spend the time loafing on the beach.

    A mall is a larger corporation. That doesn't mean you have the right to walk into the mall and give a political speech at the risk of annoying the customers and scaring them away. That would harm the shop owners and in the end the owners of the mall, and they DO have the right to throw you out.

    Sony is a corporation. They own a number of websites, including PlayStation Network and SingStar Online, which are frequented by both children and grown-ups. They have defined a set of rules to protect their property from "free speech", to prevent their sites being rendered useless to their customers due to spam, flame wars, or just plain rude language or any of the other things I have seen destroy unmoderated websites over the years. Sony does have the right to kick transgressors off their virtual property.

    A theatre is also a corporation. That does not give you the right to enter the theatre's property in order to make a nuisance of yourself by heckling the actors or yelling "Fire" in the crowd.

    Free speech is limited on other peoples' property. And corporations are property.
     
  3. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    Thrasher, yes, I am paying attention. You linked to Locke, without correction, and Locke said that only right to life should limit right to liberty. I assumed you agreed (as your arguements seemed to indicate).

    As for the property, no, most people wouldn't consider it an assault on themselves. They may consider it an attack on their property, or even an insult to themselves, but not an assault on themselves.

    Anyway, the point I'm making is that no right should always override any other right. All rights are equal and need to be balanced carefully.

    And yes, corporations should have all the same rights (and responsabilities and liabilities) as people because, just like Soylent Green, corporations are people, too. :)
     
  4. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Yup. Sooner or later, however, we'll witness servers treated increasingly similarly to real life service providers (which they are, essentially, anyway), who are increasingly being forced into non-discrimination patterns. A bad conduct ban on PSN is a poor example and things won't likely ever go that far (plus, it's a contract case anyway), but privately owned professional forums, message boards associated with a local community or something of the kind, might be a more likely target some time in the future - in case of arbitrary exclusions, of course, rather than courts simply reviewing bans. I could imagine MMORPG networks following suit, but that's less likely. It's hard to attribute government-like qualities to private corporations, but those service networks are increasingly public and that matters too - more so in continental Europe than I common law, though, I think.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  5. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Oh, that's already happened. eHarmony (a heterosexual couple matching site) was excluding gays from its dating service (since the service was for matching heterosexual people) and a lawsuit was brought.

    Apparently they settled and now provide homosexual dating services.
     
  6. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    That is so stupid, it make's my brain ache. They were forced into a corner to provide homosexual dating? What the F***? They SELL a SERVICE. Why should they have to open the service to everyone? Why should a business that sells cars also have to sell motorcycles? If they excel at matching men to women and women to men, why should they have to change that? We are a bunch of panzies here in the US, the laws are just getting ridiculous.
     
  7. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    I agree on the EHarmony case. It's absolutely ridiculous. Should McDonald's be legally required to offer vegan meals?
     
  8. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I agree (though motorcycle riders and vegans don't have protected status). AFAIK, eHarmony wasn't strictly excluding homosexuals, it was just not providing a service useful to them.
     
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